Israelis develop 'safe' plutonium: good for power......

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richie
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14 Mar 2009, 9:01 am

Israelis develop 'safe' plutonium: good for power, bad for weapons
Nuke waste could be used as fuel - even by Arabs


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Israeli boffins have developed a promising technique for "declawing" plutonium, which would let it be used as fuel but not for building bombs. They believe the technique could greatly expand peaceful use of nuclear power worldwide, while preventing weapons proliferation......


Really :?: :!: 8O

As long as slow neutrons are being produced, one type of nuclear fuel can be used to produce another type....


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ruveyn
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14 Mar 2009, 10:20 am

richie wrote:
Israelis develop 'safe' plutonium: good for power, bad for weapons
Nuke waste could be used as fuel - even by Arabs


Quote:
Israeli boffins have developed a promising technique for "declawing" plutonium, which would let it be used as fuel but not for building bombs. They believe the technique could greatly expand peaceful use of nuclear power worldwide, while preventing weapons proliferation......


Really :?: :!: 8O

As long as slow neutrons are being produced, one type of nuclear fuel can be used to produce another type....


quite so. "safe" Plutonium can be changed into Something Nasty in a breeder reactor. Pu 94 comes in several isotopes. Maybe the Israelis are producing the less fissile isotope.

ruveyn



pakled
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14 Mar 2009, 11:34 am

Plutonium is considered one of most dangerous substances on Earth. Maybe it only kills 20 million instead of 30...;)

Plutonium is an element. Maybe they're mixing it as an alloy or something...who knows.



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14 Mar 2009, 10:12 pm

says there 'front', inorder to try to hide what they are really doing.



ruveyn
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15 Mar 2009, 7:01 am

pakled wrote:
Plutonium is considered one of most dangerous substances on Earth. Maybe it only kills 20 million instead of 30...;)

Plutonium is an element. Maybe they're mixing it as an alloy or something...who knows.


Which isotope?

ruveyn



Relicanth7
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26 Mar 2009, 1:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
pakled wrote:
Plutonium is considered one of most dangerous substances on Earth. Maybe it only kills 20 million instead of 30...;)

Plutonium is an element. Maybe they're mixing it as an alloy or something...who knows.


Which isotope?

ruveyn


im guessing Pu-241 :shrug:


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28 Mar 2009, 1:50 am

Adding americium to MOX will not make it harder to use the Pu for making a bomb, the Pu can still be recovered from the unused MOX using a simple version of a PUREX process. I am sure that a PUREX process on unused MOX fuel would work as a method of getting the Pu back out of the MOX.

I think the idea of adding Np-237 to spoil Pu is a non starter, it will not prevent anyone getting the Pu-239 out of unused MOX. But it will make the Pu in the used MOX very bad for bomb making, the addition of Np-237 will cause a lot of extra Pu-238 to form in the fuel. Pu-238 has a half life of 80 to 90 years and a little Pu-238 will increase the alpha activity of the Pu a lot and will make it harder to build a bomb. Pu-238 is a nasty isotope to work with on the gram scale, it brings with it contamination issues which are almost as bad as those of radium-226 / radon-222.

A better thing to do if you want to spoil Pu, is to mix bomb grade Pu with Pu from used UOX (or even used MOX) to create Pu with an isotope signature which is mid way between the bomb grade and the Pu from a power reactor after a long irradiation time. This would increase the Pu-240 content of the Pu. After a few uses / recycles of MOX it will have such a bad Pu isotope signature that it is impossible to use it in a thermal reactor such as a PWR or BWR, at that stage the only use will be as fast reactor fuel.

If you want to make pure Pu-239 then it is important to only leave the fuel in the reactor a short time, if you are trying to run the reactor to make cheap electric power then you want to get as much energy out of each fuel rod. So you want to go for a high burn up and a long irradiation time, during this time some of the Pu-239 is converted into Pu-240 and Pu-241.

The Pu-240 is a long lived isotope of Pu which makes it hard to make a Pu based bomb, the Pu-240 undergoes spontaneous fission which forces the bomb builder to have to devise a bomb which goes very quickly from subcritical to supercritical. The Pu-241 is quite short-lived so if you sit back and wait for 30 years then most of the Pu-241 will have vanished


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27 May 2009, 10:39 am

"Safe" plutonium??? That sounds like an oxymoron, but then again, I'm no nuclear physicist.


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27 May 2009, 7:08 pm

Which isotope? wouldn't we like to know...;) If it's safe enough, maybe they can let the Iranians use it...;)



GustavHolst
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27 May 2009, 8:31 pm

are they gonna test it out on the Palestinians?



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27 May 2009, 11:14 pm

GustavHolst wrote:
are they gonna test it out on the Palestinians?


:lol: :lol: You got me to do a spit-take right in front of my computer as I was taking a drink!! :lol: :lol:


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27 May 2009, 11:40 pm

JohnnyCarcinogen wrote:
GustavHolst wrote:
are they gonna test it out on the Palestinians?


:lol: :lol: You got me to do a spit-take right in front of my computer as I was taking a drink!! :lol: :lol:

I'm sorry, but I was being somewhat serious.

I hope it didn't come out of your nose



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28 May 2009, 9:28 am

Nah, just out of the mouth, and I was adept enough to miss the screen.

I can see the seriousness of the question, but to me, I find humor in the whole conflict.

Wrong, I know. Sometimes it's the only way I can deal with rather tough political issues.


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30 May 2009, 3:14 am

As the article said, America stores all the hot scrap, forever.

That gets expensive, but what if it could be used for fuel, for a few years, we sell it to the arabs, then they get to store it for a few hundred thousand years?

The true cost per Kilowatt hour is over $100, mostly spent on waste storage.

Bomb grade is five pounds of power, and five pounds of black powder, small boom, long term dirty.

This is an immature, downright childish, technology.



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31 May 2009, 1:29 pm

'ceptin they don't use Plutonium in commercial reactors. The use Uranium, and not the isotope. About 3% if I remember correctly. It can't be used in a bomb, cept maybe a dirty bomb.

the NRC requires all radioactive materials be stored on site, or in a safe storage area. They're so stirct that no-salt (potassium) and old CRT monitors are classified as radioactive waste. Used to work in a nuclear plant, back in the day.



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31 May 2009, 2:30 pm

GustavHolst wrote:
are they gonna test it out on the Palestinians?


If the Israelis were inclined to do such a thing they would have done it long ago.

ruveyn