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skafather84
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10 Sep 2009, 2:25 pm

How is bio-electricity formed/used?

How much bio-electricity is created?


Just asking because I'm bored and thinking about figuring out how to wire up a computer of some sorts into a human that's powered by the human's own bio-electricity but not really sure how much is created/how it could be tapped into/what happens when you have too little bio-electricity. Would you simply just get hungrier? Would that translate into more burned fat?


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10 Sep 2009, 3:35 pm

look up things on electric eels. All I can tell you is you can make a battery out of a potato...;)



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10 Sep 2009, 3:44 pm

The human body produces very little electric power (i.e: forget about the absurd plot of the Matrix films). Worse, the bio-electric power is mostly present in the nerve cells, where chemo-electric pulses travel from one end to the other.

A better approach might be to use the heat for thermo-electric generation, or movement for piezo-electric generation. Even so, these approaches won't produce much power.



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10 Sep 2009, 3:48 pm

Maybe capturing the movement of an Aspie stimming? :D

Then we'd be MULTITASKING! :lol:



skafather84
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10 Sep 2009, 4:08 pm

Aoi wrote:
The human body produces very little electric power (i.e: forget about the absurd plot of the Matrix films). Worse, the bio-electric power is mostly present in the nerve cells, where chemo-electric pulses travel from one end to the other.

A better approach might be to use the heat for thermo-electric generation, or movement for piezo-electric generation. Even so, these approaches won't produce much power.


I was hoping to tap into the chemo-electric source somehow. It obviously has to go from the stomach and processed somewhere along the line...was hoping maybe to tap into that, stimulate the metabolic processes, burn more calories, and be able to power some small computer devices implanted on a human.


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Aoi
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10 Sep 2009, 4:25 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Aoi wrote:
The human body produces very little electric power (i.e: forget about the absurd plot of the Matrix films). Worse, the bio-electric power is mostly present in the nerve cells, where chemo-electric pulses travel from one end to the other.

A better approach might be to use the heat for thermo-electric generation, or movement for piezo-electric generation. Even so, these approaches won't produce much power.


I was hoping to tap into the chemo-electric source somehow. It obviously has to go from the stomach and processed somewhere along the line...was hoping maybe to tap into that, stimulate the metabolic processes, burn more calories, and be able to power some small computer devices implanted on a human.


I think you need to get a general physiology textbook and read through what happens inside the human body. For instance, almost nothing electrical takes place in the stomach; it's all mechanical and chemical in there (the stomach churns food and mixes in various digestive enzymes and acids). The only chemo-electric activity associated with the stomach comes from nerve cells there.



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10 Sep 2009, 5:39 pm

In batery electricity is produce by chemical reactions, so I guess bio-electricity must be produce by chemical reactions inside the cells.



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10 Sep 2009, 8:15 pm

All electrical activity in the human body takes place in the nervous system & the cells contained in it. Not enough power to power a comp. from what I know (I took an anatomy class). I am not even sure if you could generate enough static electricity using a human + carpet approach or something like that :?. My guess is no. If your talking psychic powers (using regions of the brain to power things that we don't use). We don't use them (I don't know how many "unused" areas of the brain in NT's aspies & auties use) but I doubt a human could be used to power electrical appliances. Though I'm definitely no expert. I'd talk to engineers & doctors about this.


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skafather84
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10 Sep 2009, 11:03 pm

Aoi wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Aoi wrote:
The human body produces very little electric power (i.e: forget about the absurd plot of the Matrix films). Worse, the bio-electric power is mostly present in the nerve cells, where chemo-electric pulses travel from one end to the other.

A better approach might be to use the heat for thermo-electric generation, or movement for piezo-electric generation. Even so, these approaches won't produce much power.


I was hoping to tap into the chemo-electric source somehow. It obviously has to go from the stomach and processed somewhere along the line...was hoping maybe to tap into that, stimulate the metabolic processes, burn more calories, and be able to power some small computer devices implanted on a human.


I think you need to get a general physiology textbook and read through what happens inside the human body. For instance, almost nothing electrical takes place in the stomach; it's all mechanical and chemical in there (the stomach churns food and mixes in various digestive enzymes and acids). The only chemo-electric activity associated with the stomach comes from nerve cells there.


Okay...I think I need to rephrase the question:

How do we go from food -> expended energy? I understand that fat cells are burned for energy and that eating food creates energy but I'm assuming that the process that generates this energy is some form of chemical reaction that generates bioelectricity. Am I wrong on this?


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skafather84
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10 Sep 2009, 11:08 pm

Peko wrote:
All electrical activity in the human body takes place in the nervous system & the cells contained in it. Not enough power to power a comp. from what I know (I took an anatomy class). I am not even sure if you could generate enough static electricity using a human + carpet approach or something like that :?. My guess is no. If your talking psychic powers (using regions of the brain to power things that we don't use). We don't use them (I don't know how many "unused" areas of the brain in NT's aspies & auties use) but I doubt a human could be used to power electrical appliances. Though I'm definitely no expert. I'd talk to engineers & doctors about this.


a) HELL NO I'm not talking about psychic power garbage.


b) I understand that it's all in the nervous system and I understand that this alone isn't enough to even power a calculator. Which is why I was also asking that if this process were to be siphoned by another source, if the body would react in such a way to generate more energy; ie, burn more fat cells and metabolize faster much like how more use of your muscles does the same. In other words: patch a small computer or electronic device into the nervous system, thereby siphoning bio-electrical power thereby mandating the body generate more power thereby stimulating the effects of like exercise in terms of what it does to the energy-creating process. I realize I'm thinking outside the box here but it can't be that far outside that it's beyond comprehension of what I'm talking about.


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10 Sep 2009, 11:49 pm

Just thinking out loud here:

IIRC the "currency" by which energy is transported around is ATP/ADP (adenosine triphosphate/diphosphate). ATP is the 'charged form' -- glucose is 'combusted' with some enzymes to turn ADP into ATP. Then somewhere else the ATP is reacted to power some process and returns to being ADP.

Maybe a way to siphon off some energy would be to use a glucose powered micro fuel-cell. Or maybe some sort of reaction that somehow turns ATP-energy directly into electrical energy.

And as I understand it nerve cells polarize themselves by pumping ions in and out through their membranes, and then suddenly reversing the pumps to generate an electrical pulse. (and the pumps are fueled by ATP IIRC) Seems like harnessing that directly would mess with the nerve signalling a lot, though.

I think the problem is you're looking for a power 'bus' in the brain, but I don't think it has one. It's like an electronic circuit where every component has it's own little battery.


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10 Sep 2009, 11:59 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
Just thinking out loud here:

IIRC the "currency" by which energy is transported around is ATP/ADP (adenosine triphosphate/diphosphate). ATP is the 'charged form' -- glucose is 'combusted' with some enzymes to turn ADP into ATP. Then somewhere else the ATP is reacted to power some process and returns to being ADP.

Maybe a way to siphon off some energy would be to use a glucose powered micro fuel-cell. Or maybe some sort of reaction that somehow turns ATP-energy directly into electrical energy.

And as I understand it nerve cells polarize themselves by pumping ions in and out through their membranes, and then suddenly reversing the pumps to generate an electrical pulse. (and the pumps are fueled by ATP IIRC) Seems like harnessing that directly would mess with the nerve signalling a lot, though.

I think the problem is you're looking for a power 'bus' in the brain, but I don't think it has one. It's like an electronic circuit where every component has it's own little battery.


Well either looking for one or possibly the means to create one...but I don't think nanotech is far along enough to be able to do such an engineering feat yet.

Basically, I'd look to siphon by the power by creating a unit that acts as the nervous system does but is always "on" therefore taking up nutrients. Kind of a dual aspect of attacking the obesity problem and helping the transhumanist movement.

correction/edit: I don't mean nervous system so much as I mean taps into the same "power supply" as the nervous system and uses its same receptors/ion pumps to generate electricity.


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Last edited by skafather84 on 11 Sep 2009, 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Sep 2009, 1:07 am

Peko wrote:
All electrical activity in the human body takes place in the nervous system & the cells contained in it. Not enough power to power a comp. from what I know (I took an anatomy class). I am not even sure if you could generate enough static electricity using a human + carpet approach or something like that :?. My guess is no. If your talking psychic powers (using regions of the brain to power things that we don't use). We don't use them (I don't know how many "unused" areas of the brain in NT's aspies & auties use) but I doubt a human could be used to power electrical appliances. Though I'm definitely no expert. I'd talk to engineers & doctors about this.


The human brain is a physical entity. It has no "psychic" powers. The mind is an epiphenomena or an emergent phenomena of the brain. Since it is the effect of physical causes it is essentially physical and has only the capabilities of physical things.

In a word, humans are made of the same sort of thing as sh*t is.

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11 Sep 2009, 7:43 am

skafather84 wrote:
Well either looking for one or possibly the means to create one...but I don't think nanotech is far along enough to be able to do such an engineering feat yet.

Basically, I'd look to siphon by the power by creating a unit that acts as the nervous system does but is always "on" therefore taking up nutrients. Kind of a dual aspect of attacking the obesity problem and helping the transhumanist movement.

correction/edit: I don't mean nervous system so much as I mean taps into the same "power supply" as the nervous system and uses its same receptors/ion pumps to generate electricity.


Aight, I think I get what you are asking.

The simple answer is no. You cannot tap into a human being's "electrical" energy to power an electronic device. While yes, we have cell's capable of generating (incredibly small) levels of electrical charge, those cells are vital in function, and the charge is not generated in a central "tappable" local.

However, the more complex answer. Maybe. Before you could though, you would have to somehow artificially synthesis a new "organ". One specifically for generating electrical charge through chemical energy. Good luck on that though. Possible, maybe, but probably decades or more in the future.


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11 Sep 2009, 9:19 am

skafather84 wrote:
How is bio-electricity formed/used?

How much bio-electricity is created?


Just asking because I'm bored and thinking about figuring out how to wire up a computer of some sorts into a human that's powered by the human's own bio-electricity but not really sure how much is created/how it could be tapped into/what happens when you have too little bio-electricity. Would you simply just get hungrier? Would that translate into more burned fat?


I have read that the brain produces about ten watts of current. The voltage is in the millivolt scale (thousandths of a volt). Multiplying the two together gives a very low power (wattage) figure.

Humans are not very good batteries.

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11 Sep 2009, 1:48 pm

I think that you would be better off with a fuel cell which is piggybacked onto the human's metabolism. If you could work out a way of converting glucose into hydrogen then you might be able to run a fuel cell. I am not sure if any bacteria would have the right enzymes for making glucose (blood sugar) into hydrogen, I do not think that humans would have the right enzymes for that.


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