thomas81
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Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
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Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
09 Aug 2012, 8:33 am
09 Aug 2012, 11:15 am
09 Aug 2012, 11:50 am
thomas81
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Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
09 Aug 2012, 7:36 pm
09 Aug 2012, 10:29 pm
thomas81 wrote:
Tsproggy wrote:
C# is my main programming language of choice and XNA is my favorite game engine to utilize it in. Are we connecting yet? xD
By connecting, i mean actually communicating outside of wrong planet for the purposes of making a game.
Are you interested?
You weren't really clear about that
People are going to want to know who you are before they spend thousands of hours working with you on something that may or may not float
I strongly recommend actually *not* using C# for a game, because portability is important (you cited that yourself) and you are more or less stuck with MS if you use XNA. I always counsel people to separate their portable code from their nonportable code, and reasonably well written games tend to have large amounts of portable code. I generally write most of the portable parts in C++ in any project. It's not really hard to support both GL and DX as rendering paths. You'll probably need to maintain two sets of shaders. The API itself is just used to set rendering state and push data to be consumed by the shaders, so it's generally easy to throw in two implementations. If your calls to DX are in C++, you saved yourself a dependency on .net, for whatever that's worth. I try to keep dependencies to a minimum unless I'm really getting something. Just my 2c.
10 Aug 2012, 7:20 am
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Tsproggy wrote:
C# is my main programming language of choice and XNA is my favorite game engine to utilize it in. Are we connecting yet? xD
By connecting, i mean actually communicating outside of wrong planet for the purposes of making a game.
Are you interested?
You weren't really clear about that
People are going to want to know who you are before they spend thousands of hours working with you on something that may or may not float
I strongly recommend actually *not* using C# for a game, because portability is important (you cited that yourself) and you are more or less stuck with MS if you use XNA. I always counsel people to separate their portable code from their nonportable code, and reasonably well written games tend to have large amounts of portable code. I generally write most of the portable parts in C++ in any project. It's not really hard to support both GL and DX as rendering paths. You'll probably need to maintain two sets of shaders. The API itself is just used to set rendering state and push data to be consumed by the shaders, so it's generally easy to throw in two implementations. If your calls to DX are in C++, you saved yourself a dependency on .net, for whatever that's worth. I try to keep dependencies to a minimum unless I'm really getting something. Just my 2c.
All true but unless your already a successful game developer and get approved for Xbox Live Arcade you can only use XNA to make games on the Xbox.
I suspect this will change with the next Xbox as windows phone 8 will no longer support Xna but instead use DirextX/C++. Of course they may just kill XBL Indie games altogether... :[
10 Aug 2012, 9:39 am
10 Aug 2012, 11:15 am
10 Aug 2012, 11:33 am
10 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
DaBeef2112 wrote:
Tsproggy wrote:
You make a good point MyFutureSelfnMe, I like C++ better anyway because it has lower access in ASM (another favorite language of mine). I will start at once working with DirectX or OpenGL again.
To the other guy: I have no desire to work on a team. It's nothing against you but last time I worked on a team it was basically me and this guy.. I was the only programmer -.- He claimed to be the "idea guy" who basically just tossed out ideas and deadlines while not knowing how complicated it might or might not be to program said ideas. It worked for a bit, I played along, made him a nice game engine. But then he "employed" another "programmer" who was like 14.. He gives the kid access to our project, the kid says that my work is "generic" (I was establishing a solid foundation, functionality before punctuality) and he starts making broken code such as admin commands where you steal another user's body, stats, skin, etc. But he forgot to handle the outed user so it infact made the victim share the viewpoint and break their character.
I asked the "idea guy" to either establish a hierarchy with him so he can confirm changes with either him or I or I would leave. He decided to do nothing, keep the kid, so I left and go figure, the game crashed. I just don't work well in teams, the leader always seems to get a big head and the developers step on eachothers toes if not coordinated correctly. I'm not going to pour hard work into something for someone I don't know.
To the other guy: I have no desire to work on a team. It's nothing against you but last time I worked on a team it was basically me and this guy.. I was the only programmer -.- He claimed to be the "idea guy" who basically just tossed out ideas and deadlines while not knowing how complicated it might or might not be to program said ideas. It worked for a bit, I played along, made him a nice game engine. But then he "employed" another "programmer" who was like 14.. He gives the kid access to our project, the kid says that my work is "generic" (I was establishing a solid foundation, functionality before punctuality) and he starts making broken code such as admin commands where you steal another user's body, stats, skin, etc. But he forgot to handle the outed user so it infact made the victim share the viewpoint and break their character.
I asked the "idea guy" to either establish a hierarchy with him so he can confirm changes with either him or I or I would leave. He decided to do nothing, keep the kid, so I left and go figure, the game crashed. I just don't work well in teams, the leader always seems to get a big head and the developers step on eachothers toes if not coordinated correctly. I'm not going to pour hard work into something for someone I don't know.
C++ is a better language to code games in but it's simply not a option for small developers on Xbox. Small devs have to use Xna. For Win Phone 7 all game developers have to use Xna, even the big guys. as I noted earlier Ms is changing this with Win Phone 8 and I hope they do the same with the next Xbox.
IMHO It's a lot easier for a small time developer to sell/distribute an xbox live indie game then a PC game. So until it happens I'm going to use xna. (of course I'm only half done my first game so you never know...)
I'd consider working on a team project but it would depend on the team and the project...
This is a terrible situation (although I believe Win Phone 7 is irrelevant as nobody owns a Win Phone 7 device). I'm sure they will change this with the next Xbox.
There are a lot of platforms out there, and current phones have nearly as much power as an Xbox 360. Developing with XNA is extremely limiting to say the least. You have to have 100% of your code separately written, except maybe scripted game logic code. Most current platforms perform so many functions the same way (they run shaders on the GPU, the shaders just execute on data pushed in blocks through the API) that this is a huge unnecessary burden.
I would be more inclined to target phones than Xbox 360, but I realize they're both huge.
Tsproggy, I develop fast code, and there are very few functions I've had to write in asm during the last 5-10 years! Not sure if your priorities are right
It sounds like the entire organization you were involved in had issues:
- Your manager wasn't a very good manager
- You may have leaned too far toward building a foundation before making things "go"; I like to have something to show the first day I start coding and refactor as I work and I feel this produces a better end product;
- The 14 year old may not have had skills working with others
10 Aug 2012, 2:20 pm
Quote:
This is a terrible situation (although I believe Win Phone 7 is irrelevant as nobody owns a Win Phone 7 device). I'm sure they will change this with the next Xbox.
There are a lot of platforms out there, and current phones have nearly as much power as an Xbox 360. Developing with XNA is extremely limiting to say the least. You have to have 100% of your code separately written, except maybe scripted game logic code. Most current platforms perform so many functions the same way (they run shaders on the GPU, the shaders just execute on data pushed in blocks through the API) that this is a huge unnecessary burden.
I would be more inclined to target phones than Xbox 360, but I realize they're both huge.
Tsproggy, I develop fast code, and there are very few functions I've had to write in asm during the last 5-10 years! Not sure if your priorities are right
It sounds like the entire organization you were involved in had issues:
- Your manager wasn't a very good manager
- You may have leaned too far toward building a foundation before making things "go"; I like to have something to show the first day I start coding and refactor as I work and I feel this produces a better end product;
- The 14 year old may not have had skills working with others
There are a lot of platforms out there, and current phones have nearly as much power as an Xbox 360. Developing with XNA is extremely limiting to say the least. You have to have 100% of your code separately written, except maybe scripted game logic code. Most current platforms perform so many functions the same way (they run shaders on the GPU, the shaders just execute on data pushed in blocks through the API) that this is a huge unnecessary burden.
I would be more inclined to target phones than Xbox 360, but I realize they're both huge.
Tsproggy, I develop fast code, and there are very few functions I've had to write in asm during the last 5-10 years! Not sure if your priorities are right
It sounds like the entire organization you were involved in had issues:
- Your manager wasn't a very good manager
- You may have leaned too far toward building a foundation before making things "go"; I like to have something to show the first day I start coding and refactor as I work and I feel this produces a better end product;
- The 14 year old may not have had skills working with others
I didn't clarify, I use ASM solely for reverse engineering purposes and sometimes for memory related actions.
- I agree
- I'm a bit confused what you mean and the game engine I mentioned before was done in 1 day and added special things the "manager" wanted after.
-Yea, doubtful a 14 year old would be versed in how to treat other workers.
10 Aug 2012, 2:44 pm
10 Aug 2012, 2:58 pm
thomas81
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Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
10 Aug 2012, 6:11 pm
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
You weren't really clear about that
People are going to want to know who you are before they spend thousands of hours working with you on something that may or may not float
People are going to want to know who you are before they spend thousands of hours working with you on something that may or may not float
My main discipline is in game design as opposed to programming. For the last few years in conjunction to a course I've been studying I've been trying with limited success to start an independent start up game company primarilly due to the lack of opportunities in my vicinity to get into the game industry.
Having autism, the need is particularly dire as I'm struggling to find full time work outside of customer care and other menial, asinine job roles.
I'm interested in meeting programmers as it isn't my area of strength.
MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
I strongly recommend actually *not* using C# for a game, because portability is important (you cited that yourself) and you are more or less stuck with MS if you use XNA. I always counsel people to separate their portable code from their nonportable code, and reasonably well written games tend to have large amounts of portable code. I generally write most of the portable parts in C++ in any project. It's not really hard to support both GL and DX as rendering paths. You'll probably need to maintain two sets of shaders. The API itself is just used to set rendering state and push data to be consumed by the shaders, so it's generally easy to throw in two implementations. If your calls to DX are in C++, you saved yourself a dependency on .net, for whatever that's worth. I try to keep dependencies to a minimum unless I'm really getting something. Just my 2c.
Well as someone has already said, C++ orientated environments while powerful, have a high barrier to entry usually because of the cost implication. C# is a more attractive option to low budget devs as the cost implication for publishing on XBLA or windows phone tends to be significantly lower. Another thing I like about C# is that it is transferrable to the Unity engine and Sonys new Playstation studio that will allow bedroom developers to release on Sony tablet and PSP Vita.
10 Aug 2012, 8:51 pm
thomas81
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Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
11 Aug 2012, 5:37 pm
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