How has our understanding of the universe (cont)

Page 1 of 1 [ 10 posts ] 

NateRiver
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 8 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 238

22 Dec 2012, 6:18 am

changed over time because of the changes in technology?



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

22 Dec 2012, 7:31 am

In a zillion ways. Why do you ask such vague questions and then don't participate in your threads. Are you trolling?


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


IChris
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 138
Location: Norway

22 Dec 2012, 8:22 am

NateRiver wrote:
changed over time because of the changes in technology?


Not really much, we still base our understanding on theories which are in accordance with Aristotle and Plato.



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

22 Dec 2012, 9:40 am

IChris wrote:
NateRiver wrote:
changed over time because of the changes in technology?


Not really much, we still base our understanding on theories which are in accordance with Aristotle and Plato.


Yes, I forgot it was Plato who discovered the background radiation emanating from the residue of the big bang and Aristotle discovered the expansion of the universe is accelerating and the curvature of space time around massive objects. Can't remember if it was Aristotle or Plato who discovered black holes though? Wasn't it Socrates who discovered the fusion process by which stars shine? I've forgotten which ancient philosopher discovered neutron stars, pulsars, quasars and quantum mechanics?


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


IChris
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 138
Location: Norway

22 Dec 2012, 10:21 am

TallyMan wrote:
IChris wrote:
NateRiver wrote:
changed over time because of the changes in technology?


Not really much, we still base our understanding on theories which are in accordance with Aristotle and Plato.


Yes, I forgot it was Plato who discovered the background radiation emanating from the residue of the big bang and Aristotle discovered the expansion of the universe is accelerating and the curvature of space time around massive objects. Can't remember if it was Aristotle or Plato who discovered black holes though? Wasn't it Socrates who discovered the fusion process by which stars shine?


It was Plato and Aristotle who actualized the theory that something objective out there has created us. This theory made the foundation for all kind of believes on something objective out there which have created us and is our 'engine'; from big bang and God, to superstrings and time. Black holes, the fusion process and background radiations are all only possible because the theories about it follow the philosophical systems of Plato and Aristotle. The accelerating expansion of the universe was something Plato and Aristotle had different perspectives on; one of them being what the western has today.

When rejecting the philosophical systems of Plato and Aristotle, all the kinds of scientific theories and discoveries as named would be pure ideas and does not add anything new knowledge or perspectives into the world view. In addition the innate effect of tacit knowledge in the physicalist system, which lead science onto a long rail of paradigm shifts, becomes so much more clear. And it is in this series of paradigm shifts the illusion of technologic development arise.



slave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Age: 112
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,420
Location: Dystopia Planetia

22 Dec 2012, 10:44 am

TallyMan wrote:
In a zillion ways. Why do you ask such vague questions and then don't participate in your threads. Are you trolling?


Agreed!



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

22 Dec 2012, 11:42 am

NateRiver wrote:
changed over time because of the changes in technology?


Radically. The first generation electronics initiated by Maxwell (and others) lead to the technologies that uncovered quantum phenomena. Also Maxwell's equations are Lorentz Invariant right out of the box. This is what led Einstein to the Special Theory of Relativity.

Computers have enable fine detail studies of DNA and the mechanisms of reproduction and heredity.

Technology, Science and Math are the Three Horsemen of Progress.

ruveyn



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

22 Dec 2012, 11:45 am

IChris wrote:
NateRiver wrote:
changed over time because of the changes in technology?


Not really much, we still base our understanding on theories which are in accordance with Aristotle and Plato.


Aristotle and Plato lead to a metaphysical train wreck that delayed REAL science for nearly 1500 years.

Aristotle assumed things he never tested (because he did not think testing was necessary) and Plato told us to ignore our senses since they lie to us.

ruveynh



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

22 Dec 2012, 12:36 pm

IChris wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
IChris wrote:
NateRiver wrote:
changed over time because of the changes in technology?


Not really much, we still base our understanding on theories which are in accordance with Aristotle and Plato.


Yes, I forgot it was Plato who discovered the background radiation emanating from the residue of the big bang and Aristotle discovered the expansion of the universe is accelerating and the curvature of space time around massive objects. Can't remember if it was Aristotle or Plato who discovered black holes though? Wasn't it Socrates who discovered the fusion process by which stars shine?


It was Plato and Aristotle who actualized the theory that something objective out there has created us. This theory made the foundation for all kind of believes on something objective out there which have created us and is our 'engine'; from big bang and God, to superstrings and time. Black holes, the fusion process and background radiations are all only possible because the theories about it follow the philosophical systems of Plato and Aristotle. The accelerating expansion of the universe was something Plato and Aristotle had different perspectives on; one of them being what the western has today.

When rejecting the philosophical systems of Plato and Aristotle, all the kinds of scientific theories and discoveries as named would be pure ideas and does not add anything new knowledge or perspectives into the world view. In addition the innate effect of tacit knowledge in the physicalist system, which lead science onto a long rail of paradigm shifts, becomes so much more clear. And it is in this series of paradigm shifts the illusion of technologic development arise.


Spoken like a true philosopher. Philosophers give us lots of words but tell us absolutely nothing useful about the real world. For that you need the scientific method. Plato and Aristotle don't even warrant a footnote in modern technical books on cosmology. Their ancient ideas are irrelevant to the ongoing discoveries made in the real world using modern technology, mathematics and physics.

I don't know why you mentioned a god; one hasn't been discovered. Maybe you refer to Zeus? He was the same era as your philosophers.


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

22 Dec 2012, 1:38 pm

TallyMan wrote:

Spoken like a true philosopher. Philosophers give us lots of words but tell us absolutely nothing useful about the real world. For that you need the scientific method. Plato and Aristotle don't even warrant a footnote in modern technical books on cosmology. Their ancient ideas are irrelevant to the ongoing discoveries made in the real world using modern technology, mathematics and physics.

s.


Actually, Plato promoted the primacy of mathematics as a way of understanding the cosmos. Aristotle did not. And Plato did not teach that the Earth was at the Center of It All and he did not teach the immovability of the earth. You can compare Aristotle to Plato. First read Aristotle -The Physics- and -Metaphysics- then read Plato -The Timeus-.

Plato's abstract otherworldly thinking lead is into the direction that physics ultimately took. Modern physics has abandoned the principle of The Mechanical Universe and is now into abstract stuff like the symmetries of physical law. So Plato actually saw the path the physics had to take, even if he taught a lot of other nonsense, such as Philosopher Kings (see -The Republic-).

It was Aristotle's busted -Physics- that lead to a nearly 1500 year dead end in the physical sciences. Galileo ousted Aristotle and the path was cleared.

ruveyn