One o' them Jesus lovers being smart...Bose-Einstein cond

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shrox
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05 Jan 2013, 5:39 pm

Would you say the moment before the Cosmological Big Bang that laid out the tangible universe was probably a Bose-Einstein condensate of near infinite mass? Most likely composed of hydrogen?

Yes, I believe the universe as we observe it.



Fnord
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05 Jan 2013, 5:44 pm

The pre-bang universe was unobservable, so we can't know what it was before it came to be.



DeaconBlues
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05 Jan 2013, 5:48 pm

In point of fact, as cosmological theory is currently understood, until a fraction of a second after the Bang, the universe was too chaotic for any laws of physics to apply. The fact that the laws shook out the way they did as things cooled has given rise to the Strong and Weak Anthropic Principles; more responsible physicists just shrug, because their job is supposed to be figuring out how the world works, not the underlying reason why it works that way.


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shrox
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05 Jan 2013, 5:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
The pre-bang universe was unobservable, so we can't know what it was before it came to be.


I can speculate, try it.



shrox
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05 Jan 2013, 5:51 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:
In point of fact, as cosmological theory is currently understood, until a fraction of a second after the Bang, the universe was too chaotic for any laws of physics to apply. The fact that the laws shook out the way they did as things cooled has given rise to the Strong and Weak Anthropic Principles; more responsible physicists just shrug, because their job is supposed to be figuring out how the world works, not the underlying reason why it works that way.


Yes, I know this. Trying to get some speculation on it.



Fnord
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05 Jan 2013, 5:52 pm

shrox wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The pre-bang universe was unobservable, so we can't know what it was before it came to be.
I can speculate, try it.

If speculation is your goal, then you should have posted this thread in the PP&R forum instead.



shrox
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05 Jan 2013, 5:54 pm

Fnord wrote:
shrox wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The pre-bang universe was unobservable, so we can't know what it was before it came to be.
I can speculate, try it.

If speculation is your goal, then you should have posted this thread in the PP&R forum instead.


Oh come on, is this a forest for the trees issue? Won't participate because in your opinion it's filed incorrectly?



ruveyn
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05 Jan 2013, 5:57 pm

shrox wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The pre-bang universe was unobservable, so we can't know what it was before it came to be.


I can speculate, try it.


If your speculation cannot be empirically falsified it is worthless. It is not a scientific speculation.

ruveyn



shrox
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05 Jan 2013, 6:00 pm

Thanks for turning this into little more than a troll in less than 10 posts. I'll just stop I guess. Later.



Fnord
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05 Jan 2013, 6:01 pm

ruveyn wrote:
shrox wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The pre-bang universe was unobservable, so we can't know what it was before it came to be.
I can speculate, try it.
If your speculation cannot be empirically falsified it is worthless. It is not a scientific speculation. ruveyn

Indeed. It is best suited for the realm of science-fiction, instead.



redrobin62
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05 Jan 2013, 6:09 pm

Wow! Tough crowd today!



shrox
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05 Jan 2013, 6:31 pm

I would say I have been bullied. Will admin agree?



Fnord
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05 Jan 2013, 6:34 pm

What did you expect: Science or Speculation?

This is the "Computers, Math, Science, and Technology" forum, after all.



shrox
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05 Jan 2013, 6:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
What did you expect: Science or Speculation?

This is the "Computers, Math, Science, and Technology" forum, after all.


You dog piled on me, that is bullying. Now you are continuing it, I am going to ask that you be banned. Many people are tired of your attitude and arrogance. I asked a legitimate query, and you just had to distract from the point of it. I am tired of it.



shrox
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05 Jan 2013, 6:43 pm

Never mind, I'll just clear out. This forum is probably your entire life, and I would feel bad to take that away from you.



Jono
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05 Jan 2013, 7:26 pm

shrox wrote:
Would you say the moment before the Cosmological Big Bang that laid out the tangible universe was probably a Bose-Einstein condensate of near infinite mass? Most likely composed of hydrogen?

Yes, I believe the universe as we observe it.


I think this probably has to do the Eternal inflation model first proposed by Alex Vilenkin and Andre Linde. It's an extension of the Big Bang model where universes are born via other Big Bangs all the time via a mechanism called called bubble nucleation. Basically, the idea is that on the Planck scale, space-time isn't smooth but chaotic, broiling in what we would call the quantum foam. In this quantum foam, occasionally bubbles of space-time spontaneously appear, where sometimes they are unstable and disappear as soon as they appear but other times they inflate to become new universes. If this is how our universe started then there wouldn't be a "before" the Big Bang per se, since time is local for each universe and that's when time started. However, it's possible that our universe started as a quantum bubble within pre-existing universe.

You might find the following video interesting:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x2tn6ZQEHg[/youtube]