Can anyone tell me why this math formula works?

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sixstring
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11 May 2013, 8:27 pm

I'm an avid poker (texas hold'em) player, and calculating odds is a big aspect of a game.

There are certain situations where I can calculate the exact odds in my mind. Basically it's when I'm against one opponent, and there's one more card to come. In such a situation, there are 44 unknown cards.

So say I'm losing and there are 17 cards I can hit to win, my odds are 17/44. This is when I do the following calculation.

17/44 = 34/88
34/88 = 4.25/11

34 + 4.25 = 38.25 and 88 + 11 = 99 ====> 17/44 = 38.25/99

100/99 = 1,01010101010101....

So I do 38.25*1.0101010101...

Basically it's 0.38 + 0.25 on an endless loop, giving me the answer 38.63636363636363...% Or 38.64%

I tried it with several numbers, it always works.
I'm just baffled by the fact that my 34/88 + 4.25/11 math works, I have no idea how.



Jono
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11 May 2013, 10:22 pm

I'm confused. What are you trying to calculate?



bonsai
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12 May 2013, 1:02 am

I follow your logic and see how the odds are being computed quickly. I just can't explain why either :)


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FMX
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12 May 2013, 2:11 am

sixstring wrote:
So say I'm losing and there are 17 cards I can hit to win, my odds are 17/44. This is when I do the following calculation.

17/44 = 34/88
34/88 = 4.25/11

34 + 4.25 = 38.25 and 88 + 11 = 99 ====> 17/44 = 38.25/99


I'm not quite sure, but I think you're asking why adding to both the numerator and denominator of a fraction gives you the corret result.

Obviously that's not valid in general, eg. (3+1)/(1+1) does not equal 3/1 + 1/1. The reason it works in your case is that the values you're adding are in proportion to the original fraction. In other words, you're really multiplying both the numerator and denominator, which is valid:

17/44 = (17*2.25) / (44*2.25) = 38.25/99

You're internally doing that using an addition (which is a nice shortcut):

17*2.25 = 17*2 + 17/4
38*2.25 = 38*2 + 38/4



Stargazer43
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12 May 2013, 3:59 am

Jono wrote:
I'm confused. What are you trying to calculate?


Lol same thing I'm wondering, what on earth are you doing or trying to figure out...? Of course 17/44 is exactly the same as 34/88, and 68/176, and so on...they're the same number, just represented differently. Half of 10000 or half of 6 is still 1/2. Is that what you're asking?



sixstring
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12 May 2013, 9:26 am

Why I would calculate this?
Poker is basically a statistics game.

Say I have 17 cards I can hit that help me, with 44 unknown. The other player moves all-in (in other words, bets all his chips.)
In such a case I have to calculate what my odds are. A 38.64% means a bit under a 4/10 chance, which means I'm a bit over a 3 to 2 underdog.

Which means the ratio of what I earn if I call his all-in, and what I have to put into the pot for me to make it a valid bet, has to be a bit over 3 to 2.

Anyway, FMX had it correct. I was wondering why that specific thing works.



Stargazer43
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12 May 2013, 3:08 pm

Oh, so you're wondering why (34+4.25n)/(88+11n)=0.386? It's because you're keeping the ratio the same, FMX had it right. I'll explain it a bit more. So you start with 34/88=0.386. If you multiply 34/88 by one, you get the exact same number, as anything multiplied by one is equal to itself. So, (34/88)*1=0.386. Now, replacing 1 with what you had: (34/88)*((1+(n/8))/(1+(n/8))=0.386. (1+(n/8))/(1+(n/8)) is equal to one, since both the numerator and denominator are exactly the same. Once you multiply it out, you end up with the same equation in your original post, (34+4.25n)/(88+11n)=0.386. It's just different ways of expressing the same thing, multiplying by one doesn't change the expression at all. You could replace 1 with just about anything you want as long as it's still equal to 1, for example (34/88)*((950x+6758.56/x)/(950x+6758.56/x)) will still equal 0.386.


PS: Don't do that, the weird addition thing.



PsychoSarah
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13 May 2013, 3:43 pm

Poker :D



isometry
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16 May 2013, 1:39 pm

It seems that you have found a way of calculating the decimal value of 17/44 and wonder why it works. Now with 34/88 you have multiplied the numerator and denominator by 2, and with 4.25/11 you have multiplied them by 0.25. Combining them is the same as multiplying the original numbers by 2 + 0.25 = 2.25; i.e.: 17 x 2.25 = 38.25 and 44 x 2.25 = 99 and so on. You can do something similar if you end up with for example 98 as denominator, since 100 / 98 = 1.020408... If I needed to calculate 17/44 however, I would probably do 17/11 = 1 + 6/11 = 1.545454... and then divide by 4, which is the same as dividing by 2 twice: 1.54545454... / 4 = 0.77272727... / 2 = 0.3863636...



Last edited by isometry on 17 May 2013, 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

ruveyn
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16 May 2013, 5:42 pm

sixstring wrote:
I'm an avid poker (texas hold'em) player, and calculating odds is a big aspect of a game.

There are certain situations where I can calculate the exact odds in my mind. Basically it's when I'm against one opponent, and there's one more card to come. In such a situation, there are 44 unknown cards.

So say I'm losing and there are 17 cards I can hit to win, my odds are 17/44. This is when I do the following calculation.

17/44 = 34/88
34/88 = 4.25/11

34 + 4.25 = 38.25 and 88 + 11 = 99 ====> 17/44 = 38.25/99

100/99 = 1,01010101010101....

So I do 38.25*1.0101010101...

Basically it's 0.38 + 0.25 on an endless loop, giving me the answer 38.63636363636363...% Or 38.64%

I tried it with several numbers, it always works.
I'm just baffled by the fact that my 34/88 + 4.25/11 math works, I have no idea how.


34/88 + 4.25/11 = 2* 34/88 = 34/44 = 17/22

a/b + c/d = (ad + bc)/bd

ruveyn