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StarCity
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05 Mar 2014, 4:39 pm

Hi,
I just cannot understand why when a biological cell dies it isn't replaced by an identical copy.
Also, I cannot understand why as people get older so the body is less able to repair itself.

It makes no sense to me.

I cannot understand why if someone injures themselves involving the skin being cut that it is replaced with scar tissue & not a copy of the original.

I cannot understand why people get old, as when cells are worn out they should be replaced with new exact copies of the original.

Can anyone else understand it?


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TallyMan
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05 Mar 2014, 5:04 pm

The problem is due to duplication errors when cells divide. As you get older the new cells that replace old or dead cells are themselves copies of copies of copies of copies etc. Did you ever try to copy analogue audio tapes? With each generation the quality gets worse.

There is also wear and tear to contend with. Bones leach calcium over time and it is no longer so easily fixed, thus bones become brittle and more frail. Joints become damaged and extra little bits of bone (called spurs) grow where they aren't supposed to. It is like the building plan of the body itself becomes damaged and you've got the cowboy builders in, bodging up previously bodged up work.


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Last edited by TallyMan on 05 Mar 2014, 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Janissy
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05 Mar 2014, 5:08 pm

It is because we run into the Hayflick Limit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayflick_limit

Quote:
The Hayflick limit[Note 1] (or Hayflick phenomenon) is the number of times a normal human cell population will divide until cell division stops. Empirical evidence shows that the telomeres associated with each cell's DNA will get slightly shorter with each new cell division until they shorten to a critical length.[1][2]


Cancer cells are not subject to the Hayflick Limit and that's what makes them so destructive. They just keep making copies of themselves endlessly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... crobes.htm

Quote:
Hayflick's finding strongly suggested that the inevitability of death, and even a cellular form of aging, was built into each individual cell or, at least, built into cells from multicellular animals. Microbial cells are still immortal. No matter how well cared for the human cells are, if they are not cancer cells, they invariably die after an average of 50 divisions. Death seems programmed into our genes.



StarCity
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05 Mar 2014, 5:54 pm

Thank you TallyMan & Janissy for your responses.

Janissy, I understand what you mean about cancer as when my cat had cancer I did everything I could to re-set the cancer cells in her body to dying rather than reproducing.
Even the vet told me that Cancer is due to cells attempting to become immortal.

TallyMan, I appreciate what you mean about copies of copies, but then are we not born with the same DNA code that we die with? That doesn't get corrupted. So why doesn't the body go back to the original code?

I suppose that this has been done by scientists before, but how about isolating the part of a cancer cell that gets it to copy a duplicate of itself, and grafting it to the DNA code so that the body properly repairs itself based upon the original code.


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We, the people on the Autistic Spectrum have a choice.
We can either try to "fit in" with the rest of society, or we can be so egocentric that we can't be bothered.
I choose the actor. I observe NT's. I listen to their socializing. I practice it, so in social situations I can just emulate/mimic what is expected.
It isn't natural for me, but it enables me to "fit in".
It is VERY tiring and draining, but at least we can appear like them even though it is an act. Like being on the stage.
They can't see it is emulation, and so we are accepted.


TallyMan
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05 Mar 2014, 6:15 pm

StarCity wrote:
TallyMan, I appreciate what you mean about copies of copies, but then are we not born with the same DNA code that we die with? That doesn't get corrupted. So why doesn't the body go back to the original code?


Yes and no. There are cells called stem cells that contain copies of the original DNA and the rest of the body has cells that have degraded copies of DNA. The DNA itself degrades with each copy as mentioned by Jannisy. If you think of DNA as a long string, then what happens is that with each copy some of the bits at the end get missed off. The next copy of this copy is missing even more bits off the end. So the DNA is gradually getting corrupted with each copy. If you think of DNA as being like an instruction manual on an audio tape and with each copy of the tape more and more instructions are missing.

There are also other aspects to ageing. There is a build up of various toxins and general rubbish in the body that the body hasn't and can't get rid of. Little granules of matter in the brain or elsewhere in the body. With various diseases comes damage. For example I have type 2 diabetes and one of the long term affects of that is that too much sugar in the system poisons and damages organs throughout the body. Autopsies on people with diabetes show we end up with thousands of tiny pin holes in our brain - damage caused by too much sugar.


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ruveyn
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05 Mar 2014, 7:57 pm

Humans are self repairing to a limited extent. Unlike chameleons we cannot regrow entire limbs, but cuts and scratches heal and our immune systems repel most pathological micro-organisms. Our bones heal when broken and contrary to prior theories the brain can regenerate new cells.

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06 Mar 2014, 10:46 am

This is a complex field of study.

There's an organ/gland that's huge in infants/children, but it shrinks as you age...pretty much vanishing as you reach adulthood. It allows massive cellular regeneration (for rapid growth). Some say if it functioned for as long as we live, humans could easily live 200-300 years or more.

The DNA issue is likewise true. If we found a way to fix that, aging would largely be limited to proper nutrition (giving the body what it needs to repair itself).

Even nutrition is an issue. Holistic remedies and the raw foods movement focuses on how we are meant to live on natural foods, not all the processed and chemical stuff that leeches away our health and vitality.



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06 Mar 2014, 5:01 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
This is a complex field of study. .............


Hi zer0netgain,
Yes, you are not mistaken. It is VERY complex.

This evening I have been researching into Stem Cells, Metastasis, Chromisones, and the like.

Thus far I have determined that when a woman has a baby it may be a good idea if she has her placenta frozen, so that stem-cells can be extracted at a later date should she need them.


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We, the people on the Autistic Spectrum have a choice.
We can either try to "fit in" with the rest of society, or we can be so egocentric that we can't be bothered.
I choose the actor. I observe NT's. I listen to their socializing. I practice it, so in social situations I can just emulate/mimic what is expected.
It isn't natural for me, but it enables me to "fit in".
It is VERY tiring and draining, but at least we can appear like them even though it is an act. Like being on the stage.
They can't see it is emulation, and so we are accepted.


Adamantium
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07 Mar 2014, 4:45 pm

I learned an interesting thing a few years ago.

My son had a terrible necrotizing infection that destroyed all of his right lung and a third of his left lung.

Liquified, gone.


Because he was under 8, they regrew.

The issue the doctors were concerned about was the possibility that the replacement organs might create linkages to the wrong places in the chest cavity, an occasional complication of this process, but thankfully that did not happen. He is now 12 and has "normal" lungs.

So our bodies can do it in youth, if all the variables are right.



StarCity
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11 Mar 2014, 6:33 pm

Adamantium wrote:
I learned an interesting thing a few years ago.

My son had a terrible necrotizing infection that destroyed all of his right lung and a third of his left lung. Liquified, gone. Because he was under 8, they regrew.
He is now 12 and has "normal" lungs.
So our bodies can do it in youth, if all the variables are right.


Hi Adamantium, that is AMAZING!! ! :!:


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We, the people on the Autistic Spectrum have a choice.
We can either try to "fit in" with the rest of society, or we can be so egocentric that we can't be bothered.
I choose the actor. I observe NT's. I listen to their socializing. I practice it, so in social situations I can just emulate/mimic what is expected.
It isn't natural for me, but it enables me to "fit in".
It is VERY tiring and draining, but at least we can appear like them even though it is an act. Like being on the stage.
They can't see it is emulation, and so we are accepted.


izzeme
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12 Mar 2014, 10:22 am

for some reason, humans are programmed to lose their regeneration when they finish growing, untill your body is fully grown, you can regrow most lost parts.

if medicine finds a way to stop the regeneration from deactivating, we will keep our regeneration, and perhaps even stop aging (which is linked to cell decay; a cell can only divide itself so often, except for stem cells), regeneration means cell decay doesn't happen, which means humans dont age anymore (we might not become immortal, but our bodies will stay young)



sonofghandi
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12 Mar 2014, 10:51 am

http://news.discovery.com/human/health/death-happens-slower-than-thought-cell-by-cell-130713.htm


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StarCity
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12 Mar 2014, 1:56 pm

sonofghandi wrote:


Hi sonofghandi,

The 'Discovery' link that you posted is very interesting.

Not only may scientists be able to prevent healthy cell necrosis, but also they may learn how to trigger it in the case of cancer cell metastisis.


_________________
We, the people on the Autistic Spectrum have a choice.
We can either try to "fit in" with the rest of society, or we can be so egocentric that we can't be bothered.
I choose the actor. I observe NT's. I listen to their socializing. I practice it, so in social situations I can just emulate/mimic what is expected.
It isn't natural for me, but it enables me to "fit in".
It is VERY tiring and draining, but at least we can appear like them even though it is an act. Like being on the stage.
They can't see it is emulation, and so we are accepted.