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How vital is a "restore" partition on your hard drive?

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Sethno
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21 Aug 2015, 9:02 pm

I know enough about working on computers to get myself in trouble once in a while.

My main machine (running Windows 7) never got the Windows 10 icon until a couple days after July 29th, and then when I tried to use it, it informed me the computer's processor wasn't supported. That's crazy. It's got an Intel 8500 and my machine with an 8400 is now running Windows 10.

I figured something was wrong with my computer's software and it was messing with the results, so I got a new hard drive for it (twice as big as the original) and this afternoon yanked the old drive, put the new one in, and began reinstalling Windows.

Now, the installer wanted to use a small portion of the hard drive for something, so I figured "let it".

Once the OS was up and running, tho', I found it was only using a small sliver of the hard drive, with the rest not even accessible. I'd thought it was making a "restore" partition, but apparently all it wanted to do was put the OS on the small portion, and not use the rest for anything.

I ended up needing to use disc management to expand the small partition and use the full hard drive.

Thing is, now there's still no restore partition, and I don't know how to make one.

Do I really need one?

My Windows 10 machine with the 8400 processor seems to have a restore partition, but I got the machine with the OS (W7) already on it. I had nothing to do with the original setup, and I assume Windows 10 just replaced everything that was already there

Now, since I have the restore DISC for the 8500 machine... Do I really need to worry about it having a restore partition?

Since the original hard drive on the 8500 machine isn't connected to anything right now, and the computer is playing catchup with Windows Update, I can't access the original drive until likely tomorrow. I'm not so sure it had a restore partition anyway, so maybe I shouldn't worry.

Should I?

EDIT:
Totally a side question- Anyone know off the top of their head how many updates a new Windows 7 installation will need to add on to a fresh install, this far down the road? I noted nearly 190 when it finally located them all. Is that too low, too high, or just about right?


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Meistersinger
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21 Aug 2015, 9:56 pm

Sethno wrote:
I know enough about working on computers to get myself in trouble once in a while.

My main machine (running Windows 7) never got the Windows 10 icon until a couple days after July 29th, and then when I tried to use it, it informed me the computer's processor wasn't supported. That's crazy. It's got an Intel 8500 and my machine with an 8400 is now running Windows 10.

I figured something was wrong with my computer's software and it was messing with the results, so I got a new hard drive for it (twice as big as the original) and this afternoon yanked the old drive, put the new one in, and began reinstalling Windows.

Now, the installer wanted to use a small portion of the hard drive for something, so I figured "let it".

Once the OS was up and running, tho', I found it was only using a small sliver of the hard drive, with the rest not even accessible. I'd thought it was making a "restore" partition, but apparently all it wanted to do was put the OS on the small portion, and not use the rest for anything.

I ended up needing to use disc management to expand the small partition and use the full hard drive.

Thing is, now there's still no restore partition, and I don't know how to make one.

Do I really need one?

My Windows 10 machine with the 8400 processor seems to have a restore partition, but I got the machine with the OS (W7) already on it. I had nothing to do with the original setup, and I assume Windows 10 just replaced everything that was already there

Now, since I have the restore DISC for the 8500 machine... Do I really need to worry about it having a restore partition?

Since the original hard drive on the 8500 machine isn't connected to anything right now, and the computer is playing catchup with Windows Update, I can't access the original drive until likely tomorrow. I'm not so sure it had a restore partition anyway, so maybe I shouldn't worry.

Should I?

EDIT:
Totally a side question- Anyone know off the top of their head how many updates a new Windows 7 installation will need to add on to a fresh install, this far down the road? I noted nearly 190 when it finally located them all. Is that too low, too high, or just about right?


That small partition that Windows 7 and later creates is an EFI partition. EFI stands for extensible Firmware Interface, which is what Intel planned to use as a replacement for ROM-BIOS. It's not used much on Wintel machines (AFAIK. It's been years since I built my own PC), but Macs use EFI extensively. But, as usual, Microsoft totally f!cked up the standard, and good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris, or even Mac OSX (for those who want to attempt to install Mac OS on non-Apple equipment) with a Microsoft-Style EFI partition. (From my days running MS-DOS, the mantra was, DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run (Lotus 1-2-3, along with WordStar or WordPerfect, dBase III, and Corel Graphics were the standard productivity suite for the command-line set.)).

The one thing I despise about hidden restore partitions is that you're screwed if your entire hard drive crashes (unless you made an emergency boot DVD before you did your first image backup of your existing drive, or your computer manufacturer provides DVDs or blu-Ray disks that have an image of the entire hard drive's contents as it came from the factory.)

As for the number of windows 7 updates, that will vary from system to system, depending on what hardware/software is installed. Just keep running Windows update until all required and optional updates are installed.



Spiderpig
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22 Aug 2015, 2:39 am

Meistersinger wrote:
But, as usual, Microsoft totally f!cked up the standard, and good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris, or even Mac OSX (for those who want to attempt to install Mac OS on non-Apple equipment) with a Microsoft-Style EFI partition.


Can't you just repartition the whole disk and forget about it?


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Meistersinger
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22 Aug 2015, 4:05 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
But, as usual, Microsoft totally f!cked up the standard, and good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris, or even Mac OSX (for those who want to attempt to install Mac OS on non-Apple equipment) with a Microsoft-Style EFI partition.


Can't you just repartition the whole disk and forget about it?


Unless you use a third party partitioning application, Microsoft, Since Windows 7 will automatically install that EFI partition. If you don't plan on installing Windows 7 or later, Partition Magic will allow you to go back to the old MBR style partitioning.

I did misspeak when I said good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris or Mac OS X on a Microsoft EFI style partition. Most Linux dis tros will use that EFI partition to add a second OS to the boot loader inside the EFI partition. It's the older LILO or Grub loaders that have fits with EFI. I can't speak for other operating systems.



madmick
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22 Aug 2015, 3:20 pm

Yes I have linux running alongside win 10. I couldn't use unetbootin - I had to use Rufus.



Sethno
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23 Aug 2015, 12:09 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
But, as usual, Microsoft totally f!cked up the standard, and good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris, or even Mac OSX (for those who want to attempt to install Mac OS on non-Apple equipment) with a Microsoft-Style EFI partition.


Can't you just repartition the whole disk and forget about it?


Did you read my whole post?

I expanded the small partition to take in the rest of the drive.

Now, there's only one partition. My question is, 'should that be a worry or not?'


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You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

What would these results mean? Been told here I must be a "half pint".


Sethno
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23 Aug 2015, 12:14 am

Meistersinger wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
But, as usual, Microsoft totally f!cked up the standard, and good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris, or even Mac OSX (for those who want to attempt to install Mac OS on non-Apple equipment) with a Microsoft-Style EFI partition.


Can't you just repartition the whole disk and forget about it?


Unless you use a third party partitioning application, Microsoft, Since Windows 7 will automatically install that EFI partition. If you don't plan on installing Windows 7 or later, Partition Magic will allow you to go back to the old MBR style partitioning.

I did misspeak when I said good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris or Mac OS X on a Microsoft EFI style partition. Most Linux dis tros will use that EFI partition to add a second OS to the boot loader inside the EFI partition. It's the older LILO or Grub loaders that have fits with EFI. I can't speak for other operating systems.


Again, I see no second partition on the drive, and the small one that was there was the OS. Again, the rest of the hard drive was inaccessible. When I expanded the small one so I could actually use the computer and make use of the new larger drive, no other partition could be seen.

'Should I worry about that?' was my question.

Thing is, a new complication has arisen, which I'll post about in a different thread. :oops:


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Your Aspie score: 100 of 200 / Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 101 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

What would these results mean? Been told here I must be a "half pint".


Meistersinger
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23 Aug 2015, 12:30 am

Sethno wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
But, as usual, Microsoft totally f!cked up the standard, and good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris, or even Mac OSX (for those who want to attempt to install Mac OS on non-Apple equipment) with a Microsoft-Style EFI partition.


Can't you just repartition the whole disk and forget about it?


Unless you use a third party partitioning application, Microsoft, Since Windows 7 will automatically install that EFI partition. If you don't plan on installing Windows 7 or later, Partition Magic will allow you to go back to the old MBR style partitioning.

I did misspeak when I said good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris or Mac OS X on a Microsoft EFI style partition. Most Linux dis tros will use that EFI partition to add a second OS to the boot loader inside the EFI partition. It's the older LILO or Grub loaders that have fits with EFI. I can't speak for other operating systems.


Again, I see no second partition on the drive, and the small one that was there was the OS. Again, the rest of the hard drive was inaccessible. When I expanded the small one so I could actually use the computer and make use of the new larger drive, no other partition could be seen.

'Should I worry about that?' was my question.

Thing is, a new complication has arisen, which I'll post about in a different thread. :oops:


Normally, you would not see the EFI partition (that partition would only be about 200 megabytes). If you're only seeing a 200 meg drive and nothing else is accessible, your partition tables on the hard drive are screwed up. The easiest way to completely straighten this out is to grab a Linux Live DVD, such as Linux Mint boot from that disk, start a terminal session and type sudo parted at the prompt. This will start partition magic. Delete all partitions you see, then install a Microsoft Master boot record. Quit partition magic, use the shutdown command from your live distro desktop, eject the disk and let the system shutdown. Now insert your Windows install DVD, and reinstall windows. Unless your computer manufacturer supplies software to install a repair partition, as well as a recovery partition, I wouldn't bother trying to create those partitions.



Sethno
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23 Aug 2015, 12:54 am

Meistersinger wrote:
Sethno wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
But, as usual, Microsoft totally f!cked up the standard, and good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris, or even Mac OSX (for those who want to attempt to install Mac OS on non-Apple equipment) with a Microsoft-Style EFI partition.


Can't you just repartition the whole disk and forget about it?


Unless you use a third party partitioning application, Microsoft, Since Windows 7 will automatically install that EFI partition. If you don't plan on installing Windows 7 or later, Partition Magic will allow you to go back to the old MBR style partitioning.

I did misspeak when I said good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris or Mac OS X on a Microsoft EFI style partition. Most Linux dis tros will use that EFI partition to add a second OS to the boot loader inside the EFI partition. It's the older LILO or Grub loaders that have fits with EFI. I can't speak for other operating systems.


Again, I see no second partition on the drive, and the small one that was there was the OS. Again, the rest of the hard drive was inaccessible. When I expanded the small one so I could actually use the computer and make use of the new larger drive, no other partition could be seen.

'Should I worry about that?' was my question.

Thing is, a new complication has arisen, which I'll post about in a different thread. :oops:


Normally, you would not see the EFI partition (that partition would only be about 200 megabytes). If you're only seeing a 200 meg drive and nothing else is accessible, your partition tables on the hard drive are screwed up. The easiest way to completely straighten this out is to grab a Linux Live DVD, such as Linux Mint boot from that disk, start a terminal session and type sudo parted at the prompt. This will start partition magic. Delete all partitions you see, then install a Microsoft Master boot record. Quit partition magic, use the shutdown command from your live distro desktop, eject the disk and let the system shutdown. Now insert your Windows install DVD, and reinstall windows. Unless your computer manufacturer supplies software to install a repair partition, as well as a recovery partition, I wouldn't bother trying to create those partitions.


Are you pretending to not understand the things I've said, or are you actually not understanding?

I never said anything about seeing a 200mb partition and nothing else. I said the partition takes up the whole hard drive.

This is a joke, right?


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AQ 31
Your Aspie score: 100 of 200 / Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 101 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

What would these results mean? Been told here I must be a "half pint".


Meistersinger
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23 Aug 2015, 1:22 am

Sethno wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Sethno wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
But, as usual, Microsoft totally f!cked up the standard, and good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris, or even Mac OSX (for those who want to attempt to install Mac OS on non-Apple equipment) with a Microsoft-Style EFI partition.


Can't you just repartition the whole disk and forget about it?


Unless you use a third party partitioning application, Microsoft, Since Windows 7 will automatically install that EFI partition. If you don't plan on installing Windows 7 or later, Partition Magic will allow you to go back to the old MBR style partitioning.

I did misspeak when I said good luck installing Linux, BSD, Solaris or Mac OS X on a Microsoft EFI style partition. Most Linux dis tros will use that EFI partition to add a second OS to the boot loader inside the EFI partition. It's the older LILO or Grub loaders that have fits with EFI. I can't speak for other operating systems.


Again, I see no second partition on the drive, and the small one that was there was the OS. Again, the rest of the hard drive was inaccessible. When I expanded the small one so I could actually use the computer and make use of the new larger drive, no other partition could be seen.

'Should I worry about that?' was my question.

Thing is, a new complication has arisen, which I'll post about in a different thread. :oops:


Normally, you would not see the EFI partition (that partition would only be about 200 megabytes). If you're only seeing a 200 meg drive and nothing else is accessible, your partition tables on the hard drive are screwed up. The easiest way to completely straighten this out is to grab a Linux Live DVD, such as Linux Mint boot from that disk, start a terminal session and type sudo parted at the prompt. This will start partition magic. Delete all partitions you see, then install a Microsoft Master boot record. Quit partition magic, use the shutdown command from your live distro desktop, eject the disk and let the system shutdown. Now insert your Windows install DVD, and reinstall windows. Unless your computer manufacturer supplies software to install a repair partition, as well as a recovery partition, I wouldn't bother trying to create those partitions.


Are you pretending to not understand the things I've said, or are you actually not understanding?

I never said anything about seeing a 200mb partition and nothing else. I said the partition takes up the whole hard drive.

This is a joke, right?


I'm not joking. What it sounds like is when you installed the new hard drive, and tried to reinstall windows 7, something screwed up the partition table on that drive. You did say that windows wanted to create an additional partition during the install, which you allowed it to do, if I read your original post correctly. That additional partition is the EFI partition. That partition is the interface between firmware (think ROM-BIOS) and the actual OS kernel. Expanding that EFI partition may lead to unpredictable results.

The only way you can install a restore or recovery partition is to run the utility to create that partition that came with that computer.



Sethno
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23 Aug 2015, 7:25 am

Meistersinger wrote:
I'm not joking. What it sounds like is when you installed the new hard drive, and tried to reinstall windows 7, something screwed up the partition table on that drive. You did say that windows wanted to create an additional partition during the install, which you allowed it to do, if I read your original post correctly. That additional partition is the EFI partition. That partition is the interface between firmware (think ROM-BIOS) and the actual OS kernel. Expanding that EFI partition may lead to unpredictable results.

The only way you can install a restore or recovery partition is to run the utility to create that partition that came with that computer.


You still aren't listening.

I did NOT say it wanted to create a 2nd partition during the install. I said it wanted to put the OS on what turned out to be a SMALL one, with the rest of the drive ending up not even having a partition. It was totally unused. I had to expand the tiny partition so it used the whole drive. No other partition was visible under "management".

AFTER Windows had been up and running for a good while, it needed to reboot after downloading updates, and after THAT it had two boot options, the second of which does not work.

See my other thread.
viewtopic.php?t=291740

At this point I need to know if there's a way I can purge the 2nd option without actually wiping the drive and starting all over again.


_________________
AQ 31
Your Aspie score: 100 of 200 / Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 101 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

What would these results mean? Been told here I must be a "half pint".


Meistersinger
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23 Aug 2015, 9:07 am

Sethno wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
I'm not joking. What it sounds like is when you installed the new hard drive, and tried to reinstall windows 7, something screwed up the partition table on that drive. You did say that windows wanted to create an additional partition during the install, which you allowed it to do, if I read your original post correctly. That additional partition is the EFI partition. That partition is the interface between firmware (think ROM-BIOS) and the actual OS kernel. Expanding that EFI partition may lead to unpredictable results.

The only way you can install a restore or recovery partition is to run the utility to create that partition that came with that computer.


You still aren't listening.

I did NOT say it wanted to create a 2nd partition during the install. I said it wanted to put the OS on what turned out to be a SMALL one, with the rest of the drive ending up not even having a partition. It was totally unused. I had to expand the tiny partition so it used the whole drive. No other partition was visible under "management".

AFTER Windows had been up and running for a good while, it needed to reboot after downloading updates, and after THAT it had two boot options, the second of which does not work.

See my other thread.
viewtopic.php?t=291740

At this point I need to know if there's a way I can purge the 2nd option without actually wiping the drive and starting all over again.


You still don't get it!

From looking at your other thread, I'm saying something really screwed up the partition table on this drive. You will need third party drive partitioning software, such as gparted that is found on many Linux live DVDs (Linux Mint is a good one that will boot to a desktop) to blow away all partitions on the drive, and set up a new Microsoft style Master Boot Record. Once that has been accomplished, reinstall Windows 7 from the DVD. Do not have any other hard drives or flash drives attached when you reinstall, as it also sounds like windows may have tried to install to the flash drive (which shouldn't have happened, as windows refuses to install to anything but the primary hard drive on the primary drive controller.)



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23 Aug 2015, 9:56 am

Sethno wrote:
Did you read my whole post?

I expanded the small partition to take in the rest of the drive.

Now, there's only one partition. My question is, 'should that be a worry or not?'


I don't know or care much about current versions of MS Windows. I just asked Meistersinger about his comment regarding other operating systems.


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23 Aug 2015, 10:15 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Sethno wrote:
Did you read my whole post?

I expanded the small partition to take in the rest of the drive.

Now, there's only one partition. My question is, 'should that be a worry or not?'


I don't know or care much about current versions of MS Windows. I just asked Meistersinger about his comment regarding other operating systems.


Why do I even bother? You're gonna do what you damn well please, just like any other end user I tried to help in the past. Stick a fork in it. I'm done trying to help anybody with anything!



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24 Aug 2015, 2:56 am

This discussion is getting too heated. Thread locked.


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