Who else likes it when this happens on Windows XP?

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saxgeek
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22 Jun 2016, 1:45 pm

I always found it amusing when a background window stopped repainting itself, and you could drag a window all over the screen and leave trails behind.
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If you want to experience this, go here: http://mrdoob.com/lab/javascript/effects/ie6/



AnaHitori
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22 Jun 2016, 3:14 pm

I like that, too. ^.^


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BirdInFlight
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22 Jun 2016, 7:38 pm

I don't remember that, but clicking on that link and playing with it was fun!



Fogman
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23 Jun 2016, 10:28 am

Usually that happens when the system freezes up. It really didn't happen that much when I was using Xp, but It happened all too often when I was using Win98. At the same time, when I first started using Linux, we were still stuck with the 4 series of Netscape that was statically linked to libmotif. I don't think libmotif was the cause, but a asynchronous data transfer error with Netscape would lock a Linux system up just as bad as a Windows system, if not worse. --The ony way I could get out of it was by doing a hard reboot.


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23 Jun 2016, 10:43 am

Aw, love the link!! ! I seriously just played with it for 15 minutes. XD
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ZD
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23 Jun 2016, 10:47 am

It happens when an application doesn't process the WM_PAINT message. All they do now is automatically paint the window so that effect doesn't appear when the thread processing the window messages is busy.


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BirdInFlight
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23 Jun 2016, 12:02 pm

Wow you designed architecture with it! :D

LittleLu wrote:
Aw, love the link!! ! I seriously just played with it for 15 minutes. XD
Image



LittleLu
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23 Jun 2016, 12:06 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:
Wow you designed architecture with it! :D

LittleLu wrote:
Aw, love the link!! ! I seriously just played with it for 15 minutes. XD
Image

Lol, I was seeing it as some form of optical illusion, but that works too. XD


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23 Jun 2016, 1:16 pm

Honestly, it annoys the living crap out of me, partly because I know something is glitching up really badly when it happens, and partly because it obscures parts of the screen that I want to see.

ZD wrote:
It happens when an application doesn't process the WM_PAINT message. All they do now is automatically paint the window so that effect doesn't appear when the thread processing the window messages is busy.

I long wondered why it happened, but now I seem to have an answer. :D That said, I'm pretty sure I've seen it happen on Windows 7. Does it suffer from the same bug? I can't recall ever seeing it on Windows 8.1, in my limited experience with it.


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saxgeek
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23 Jun 2016, 3:38 pm

Yes, it can happen on Windows 7 if you aren't using the Aero theme.

If any of you are curious as to why this happens, then this is why. GUI (Graphical User Interface) programs are event driven, which means that there's a routine in the program that's constantly waiting for something to happen (like the user mousing over something, dragging the window, resizing, etc.). When an event happens, the program calls a function to deal with that event. There's an event in particular called WM_PAINT which a program receives when a part of its window has been uncovered or exposed. When this happens, the program is supposed to redraw the part of its window that was uncovered. However, if the program is really slow or frozen, it can't redraw its window in time, so what was drawn to the screen there is simply left there. In this case, my Firefox window, which was maximized and frozen, didn't redraw itself, whatever Task Manager had drawn to the screen was just left there when I moved the window around, leaving these trails.

Windows Vista and higher include a compositor called DWM (Desktop Window Manager), which is a program that handles all of the fancy Aero effects and transparency. When DWM is enabled, the windows no longer draw directly to the screen, but instead draw to some area of memory. The DWM then takes all of these offscreen buffers, and then puts them together (composites them) into the image you see on screen. If you're using the Basic or Classic theme on Windows Vista or 7, then the window drawing works just like XP and earlier, and this effect can happen. On Windows 8 and higher, there's no way to disable DWM, so this would never happen on those operating systems.



mr_bigmouth_502
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23 Jun 2016, 3:49 pm

saxgeek wrote:
Yes, it can happen on Windows 7 if you aren't using the Aero theme.

If any of you are curious as to why this happens, then this is why. GUI (Graphical User Interface) programs are event driven, which means that there's a routine in the program that's constantly waiting for something to happen (like the user mousing over something, dragging the window, resizing, etc.). When an event happens, the program calls a function to deal with that event. There's an event in particular called WM_PAINT which a program receives when a part of its window has been uncovered or exposed. When this happens, the program is supposed to redraw the part of its window that was uncovered. However, if the program is really slow or frozen, it can't redraw its window in time, so what was drawn to the screen there is simply left there. In this case, my Firefox window, which was maximized and frozen, didn't redraw itself, whatever Task Manager had drawn to the screen was just left there when I moved the window around, leaving these trails.

Windows Vista and higher include a compositor called DWM (Desktop Window Manager), which is a program that handles all of the fancy Aero effects and transparency. When DWM is enabled, the windows no longer draw directly to the screen, but instead draw to some area of memory. The DWM then takes all of these offscreen buffers, and then puts them together (composites them) into the image you see on screen. If you're using the Basic or Classic theme on Windows Vista or 7, then the window drawing works just like XP and earlier, and this effect can happen. On Windows 8 and higher, there's no way to disable DWM, so this would never happen on those operating systems.

Interesting, so I'm guessing the desktop counts as a "window" too?


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Chichikov
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24 Jun 2016, 9:38 am

Everything is a window, your desktop\task bar etc is just a program called explorer.exe. If you end it your desktop will go, and windows will restart it for you (nice OS that it is).



mr_bigmouth_502
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25 Jun 2016, 8:14 am

Chichikov wrote:
Everything is a window, your desktop\task bar etc is just a program called explorer.exe. If you end it your desktop will go, and windows will restart it for you (nice OS that it is).

I've known about that trick for a long time, I used to have to do it quite often. I also knew about the taskbar counting as a "window" since a friend of mine had really thick lime green window borders on his Win2k box several years back, and it applied to his taskbar as well.

Now, I wonder, since you can still have windows open when explorer.exe isn't running, what does Windows use as its window manager? I know Linux is really modular in that you can mix and match different window managers, compositors, and other components of a desktop environment.


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Fogman
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25 Jun 2016, 11:07 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Now, I wonder, since you can still have windows open when explorer.exe isn't running, what does Windows use as its window manager? I know Linux is really modular in that you can mix and match different window managers, compositors, and other components of a desktop environment.


I don't know what the DM for Windows is, but from what I understand, it's actually a part of the NT Kernel, or a service that is very close to kernel level. From about Win8, I've thought that MS should juest concentrate on making a secure OS, and adopt a 3rd party DE like KDE, which is a good fit for windows, in the fact that KDE's workflow is very similar to that of Windows, so the learning curve wouldn't be that hard when upgrading to a newer version of windows, from the former MS DM, to KDE. Also, you wouldn't have to deal with install cruft like Acrobat Reader, or other crap, as KDE has a lot of extras.


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saxgeek
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26 Jun 2016, 10:51 am

There is a KDE on Windows initiative, if you want to check that out. https://community.kde.org/Windows
However, it's much more supported on Linux, and I find that it's a resource hog compared to other desktop environments like Xfce.



Fogman
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26 Jun 2016, 11:46 am

saxgeek wrote:
There is a KDE on Windows initiative, if you want to check that out. https://community.kde.org/Windows
However, it's much more supported on Linux, and I find that it's a resource hog compared to other desktop environments like Xfce.


Yeah, I've known about the KDE on Windows for a while, and even used it a couple of years ago. The problem was, the Windows that Windows drew were differant than the ones that KDE drew. --There was no continuity between the two. --Still though, It was nice to have some software utilities available installed with KDE, that you have to download from third party vendors for Windows.


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