What's the differences between NT Brains and non-NT Brains

Page 1 of 2 [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Dalek_Borg
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

Joined: 19 Jun 2021
Age: 13
Gender: Male
Posts: 2
Location: Shenzhen,China,Asia,Earth

24 Jun 2021, 6:02 am

Like ASD ,ADHD,OCD......



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,116
Location: temperate zone

24 Jun 2021, 3:09 pm

M-o-u-s-eeeee....! :D



Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484

24 Jun 2021, 6:04 pm

The main differences are in the way in which one may think.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,116
Location: temperate zone

26 Jun 2021, 11:08 am

They havent really detected any actual physical differences in the brains of autistics with those of NTs the last time I read about the subject.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,573

29 Jun 2021, 12:43 am

Triangulating different literature there is a suggestion in some non-NT brains that sensory integration is compromised where individual parts of the brain are all equivalent with NTs but the ability of these "mini-brains" to communicate with each other is not as efficient.

For my daughter her biggest issue is impulse control when attempting to i) cope with auditory sensory inputs and ii) changes that unexpectedly differ in the environment. When these two conditions are under some level of control she is able to be hyper-focused.



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 21,006
Location: South-East England

02 Jul 2021, 5:52 pm

Apparently autism brains are bigger than average brains, although I don't know how my brain can be big because my head is actually quite small.


_________________
Female
Aged 31
On antidepressants
Have ASD, ADHD and anxiety disorder
Empathy score: 61 out of a possible 80. (High)


ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,617
Location: New Jersey, USA

02 Jul 2021, 6:01 pm

Somewhere between physical and spiritual:

Meaning our minds might exist as a sort of software program executed by the movement of our neurons. Two computers may look the same, but have totally different operating systems. Examining two hard drives with the naked eye can give you a good idea about how they're constructed and what processing power they have, but no way to tell which operating systems were installed without hooking them up.

If this is the case, brain imaging alone can't reveal anything concrete.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,573

02 Jul 2021, 8:16 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Somewhere between physical and spiritual:

Meaning our minds might exist as a sort of software program executed by the movement of our neurons. Two computers may look the same, but have totally different operating systems. Examining two hard drives with the naked eye can give you a good idea about how they're constructed and what processing power they have, but no way to tell which operating systems were installed without hooking them up.

If this is the case, brain imaging alone can't reveal anything concrete.


Actually from this perspective NTs are also in a programmed loop. How the NT brain responds to ambiguity is, however, one minor difference in the operating system.



ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,617
Location: New Jersey, USA

02 Jul 2021, 9:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Actually from this perspective NTs are also in a programmed loop. How the NT brain responds to ambiguity is, however, one minor difference in the operating system.


What I'm saying is that physically examining the brains themselves won't show much difference. How the brain operates and processes things is vastly different, but the physicality of humans brains can't demonstrate this.

I wouldn't call the programming a loop. Without programming, there is no function, or very basic functionality like a lobotomized patient. The neurons that cause the process that creates mind makes the brain operate. But the mind can't be physically observed.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,116
Location: temperate zone

03 Jul 2021, 4:37 am

Actually there is one physical difference that they have observed. The neurons of autistic brains branch more, while NT brains prune their neuron branches more. But the overall large scale shape of the brains are pretty much the same.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,573

03 Jul 2021, 5:01 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
I wouldn't call the programming a loop. Without programming, there is no function, or very basic functionality like a lobotomized patient. The neurons that cause the process that creates mind makes the brain operate. But the mind can't be physically observed.


Programming is a metaphor but unlike computer programming the brain processes is a program loop. In other words it's a feedback loop that requires input in (bottom up processing) which we use sensory data to predict what will happen next where we are and next time when we are facing the same environment and constant recoding (top-down processing) to adjust our program when we i) learn something new or ii) receive an error message when processing an environment where we deal with something unexpected.

So it's ii) the errors which NTs are better at dealing with than autistic people. That's what I mean't by greater tolerance for ambiguity.

A lot of autistic people get a malfunction (worst case a meltdown) when they get an error message from the environment. That's why they like predictable routine.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,573

03 Jul 2021, 5:06 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Actually there is one physical difference that they have observed. The neurons of autistic brains branch more, while NT brains prune their neuron branches more. But the overall large scale shape of the brains are pretty much the same.


Yeah I already said this. The differences in neural pruning result in poorer less sensitive communication between modular sections of the brain which is why autistic people often get sensory overload. This stems from a problem of sensory integration resulting in differences in processing speed, distraction and inability to focus/concentrate. This also leads to social awkwardness and it takes autistic people longer to understand NT social nuance (many never do).



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,116
Location: temperate zone

03 Jul 2021, 6:11 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Actually there is one physical difference that they have observed. The neurons of autistic brains branch more, while NT brains prune their neuron branches more. But the overall large scale shape of the brains are pretty much the same.


Yeah I already said this. The differences in neural pruning result in poorer less sensitive communication between modular sections of the brain which is why autistic people often get sensory overload. This stems from a problem of sensory integration resulting in differences in processing speed, distraction and inability to focus/concentrate. This also leads to social awkwardness and it takes autistic people longer to understand NT social nuance (many never do).


No. You did NOT already say it, anywhere in this thread.

You talked about effects on the mind- effects that you now claim are the results of the difference in neural pruning. But you didnt mention neural pruning. The OP was asking about physical visible differences in the brain itself. Not in the mind. You went straight to talking about the mind. And now youre back pedaling and claiming you said something that you didnt say.

Neural pruning is the kind of thing he was asking about: a physical difference to physical neurons visible under a microscope. You didnt mention it. Ergo you failed to answer his question.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,573

03 Jul 2021, 7:53 am

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Actually there is one physical difference that they have observed. The neurons of autistic brains branch more, while NT brains prune their neuron branches more. But the overall large scale shape of the brains are pretty much the same.


Yeah I already said this. The differences in neural pruning result in poorer less sensitive communication between modular sections of the brain which is why autistic people often get sensory overload. This stems from a problem of sensory integration resulting in differences in processing speed, distraction and inability to focus/concentrate. This also leads to social awkwardness and it takes autistic people longer to understand NT social nuance (many never do).


No. You did NOT already say it, anywhere in this thread.

You talked about effects on the mind- effects that you now claim are the results of the difference in neural pruning. But you didnt mention neural pruning. The OP was asking about physical visible differences in the brain itself. Not in the mind. You went straight to talking about the mind. And now youre back pedaling and claiming you said something that you didnt say.

Neural pruning is the kind of thing he was asking about: a physical difference to physical neurons visible under a microscope. You didnt mention it. Ergo you failed to answer his question.


Wait has this become a court of law? Ok it's what I mean't....retrospectively



gwynfryn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 501
Location: France

06 Jul 2021, 10:49 am

There’s an amazing amount of disinformation in this thread!

One well known difference is that autistic brains have more glial cells, aka “white matter”. It was once thought to have a nutritional function, but then it was discovered that it had an important cognitive function, normally attributed to the better known “grey matter”.

A bit of history for you; when Einstein was autopsied, researchers were allowed a slice of his brain for analysis, and the only significant departure from the norm was this denser white matter. The rest of his brain was buried with his body.

I’ve since come across three claims of having discovered his brain, in a forgotten pickle jar or some such. Said brain was then either frozen and ground down, layer by layer, each being scanned, or cut up into cubes for examination. All three claimed his brain was smaller than average (unlikely given the size of his head) and differently wired, but none made any reference to more glial cells! The authors also denied he was autistic, though the copious biographical info on him makes this conclusion inescapable…



Jiheisho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2020
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,507

06 Jul 2021, 5:48 pm

SOME autistic brains have "more" white matter. Some do not. And that is a big problem in research is finding replicable results. Currently, you cannot take a brain and understand if it is an "autistic" brain.

How autism scientists are tackling brain imaging’s replication problem

Large set of brain scans reveals no telltale signs of autism

Even with positive results, those results don't universally hold for the autism population, but are only found in some of the population, hence the discussion of subtypes.

Big brains and white matter: New clues about autism subtypes