Jail for 'Robin Hoods' who cost Microsoft millions

Page 1 of 2 [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Psychlone
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 713
Location: Michigan

08 May 2005, 1:50 am

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... nternet_dc

Quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - Four Britons were jailed on Friday for being part of a global gang described as "Robin Hoods" who stole expensive software from rich companies and gave it away for free over the Internet.

The group, described by prosecutors as "sad individuals" who spent their lives in front of computers, were said to have cost firms such as Microsoft Corp. millions of dollars in profit and enraged its chairman, Bill Gates.

Prosecutors told London's Old Bailey criminal court that the four men, motivated by a hatred of software companies, were the key players in an international ring called DrinkorDie.com, said to be one of the world's most sophisticated Web piracy groups.



keeg
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 11
Location: oregon

16 May 2005, 11:32 am

WOW! good for them. I must say I admire people like that. What are otehrs peoples thoughts on this?


_________________
I Wish I had a clever quote.
Ben


BlackLiger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,525
Location: My Posh Leather Chair. England.

16 May 2005, 3:05 pm

*Walks away whistling while policemen shout*

Hehe. Good on them to be honest. I'd object, but the prices big companies like MS charge, I can't. I mean, for heavens sake. Visual Basic 6.0 (now 2 years out of date since the last update) is about £40!! !


_________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"


duncvis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,642
Location: The valleys of green and grey

16 May 2005, 3:23 pm

Software is prohibitively expensive, if you actually buy it... cheers to the crackers and warez merchants I say. I mostly use free/open source software now anyway, but have avoided giving Micro$oft any of my money in the past wherever possible.... after all I need it more than B*** G**** does... :P


_________________
I'm usually smarter than this.

www.last.fm/user/nursethescreams <<my last.fm thingy

FOR THE HORDE!


BlackLiger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,525
Location: My Posh Leather Chair. England.

16 May 2005, 3:40 pm

We all do :P I have bought all my softwear *cough cough* :P


_________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"


Kitsune
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 180

16 May 2005, 7:36 pm

Alas for the days of real shareware and such.

I decided to quit at windows 2K, if the software isn't free I don't use it for the most part.

While microsoft *IS* a large company and *IS* full of BS, if you have to steal the software you don't need it.

www.sourceforge.net



TaliDaRadical
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 152

13 Jun 2005, 8:10 pm

Awesome! 8) I don't buy software either, it's just stupid. Tapping into 30 day trial versions to pick off the timer is so much easier than begging your parents for $300 for a stupid piece of shiny plastic.



Kitsune
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 180

13 Jun 2005, 9:21 pm

You guys have no idea how complicated programming is, do you?

Look at what artists make and what photographers make. Some pieces go for millions of dollars a piece. A copy for thousands.

It's just a stupid piece of thin wood pulp with a bunch of oil thrown on it, isn't it?

No. The artist spent days, weeks, sometimes even years making it.

www.mozilla.org download the source code and read through it.



TaliDaRadical
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 152

13 Jun 2005, 9:42 pm

You have no idea how poor some folk are, do you?

Look at the way kids live in the ghetto today. Chances are that at least one person on this board either had to wait years on the list for Section 8 housing, is accessing this site from a public school computer, or has a family that lives hand to mouth with nothing to spare for $300 software. If hacking was banned, millions of young computer enthusiasts would've been deprived. Until they subsidize computer programs, I say, share the wealth.

A program is not like a work of art on a rich person's wall. Rich people probably hire people to surf the 'net for them. A program is more like a book, to be bought by the library and read by library patrons. They don't really carry OS software or whatever in public libraries these days, do they? Bill Gates is swimming in money while people are being deprived of the cybernetic experience. One copy- a hundred copies hacked; it makes no difference. Gates has one less solid gold pocket protector. But just one copy of Photoshop- of Windows- of Tomb Raider- of Flash- can encourage a poor child to use his creativity and to reach beyond. And maybe that kid will become the next technological innovator and invent the next feature on your computer or cell phone.



duncvis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,642
Location: The valleys of green and grey

14 Jun 2005, 4:30 am

Well said Tali. 8)


_________________
I'm usually smarter than this.

www.last.fm/user/nursethescreams <<my last.fm thingy

FOR THE HORDE!


Kitsune
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 180

14 Jun 2005, 4:22 pm

Quote:
You have no idea how poor some folk are, do you?


Actually, I do. My dad lost his job two weeks ago.

Quote:
Look at the way kids live in the ghetto today. Chances are that at least one person on this board either had to wait years on the list for Section 8 housing, is accessing this site from a public school computer, or has a family that lives hand to mouth with nothing to spare for $300 software. If hacking was banned, millions of young computer enthusiasts would've been deprived. Until they subsidize computer programs, I say, share the wealth.


Ah, but it's so easy to stay legitimate and run a computer. People are arrested for stealing, computer code is just easy to steal because of the internet.

Yes, kids live in the ghetto. Some people are very poor but love computers. I know the drill. If you can't afford the software you can live without it. There is always a freeware or GNU/GPL alternative.

http://www.linuxiso.org/
http://www.openoffice.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/

If you can't afford the corvette you don't steal it. If you do the police eventually find you and "I couldn't afford it so I just took it" won't cut it. Thieves are thieves and their moral character is in question regardless of how they justify what they are doing.

Quote:
A program is not like a work of art on a rich person's wall. Rich people probably hire people to surf the 'net for them. A program is more like a book, to be bought by the library and read by library patrons. They don't really carry OS software or whatever in public libraries these days, do they? Bill Gates is swimming in money while people are being deprived of the cybernetic experience. One copy- a hundred copies hacked; it makes no difference. Gates has one less solid gold pocket protector. But just one copy of Photoshop- of Windows- of Tomb Raider- of Flash- can encourage a poor child to use his creativity and to reach beyond. And maybe that kid will become the next technological innovator and invent the next feature on your computer or cell phone.


A program is exactly like a book. And you're right about libraries. You can access the internet from your library for free. On the topic of Bill Gates, he became the richest man in the world by using innovative techniques to create an operating system for computers that no one else could match at the time. He got a foothold in the industry and has not let up. His children get ten million each, the rest of his fortune goes to the gates foundation when he dies. To charity.

It is easy to get your hands on a legal copy of any windows operating system. You can usually buy an educational copy for half off the retail price. Same with photoshop and flash studio MX. I paid 50 bucks for a legal boxed copy of finale printmusic 2004, a piece of software that normally costs 200, with an educational license. Windows does the same thing.

Microsoft windows and adobe photoshop are often bundled together on new systems. You can pay 500 dollars for the whole kit and kaboodle. A summer job or a weekend job will soon get you this. You talk about kids that live in the ghetto, about how poor they are, yet I've presented alternatives and easier ways that are WIDELY known. What does this say about software pirates?

There is software that is open to be read by anyone. You can read and modify the source code. Mozilla, mozilla firefox, mozilla thunderbird, any flavor of linux, openoffice, and many other programs too numerous to list are like this. They are useful programs that do the same thing as the brand name expensive ones, why not read these?

An author is paid money to have his work read. If you do not pay him or the person selling the book then the book is stolen property.

I believe that an author can deny his book entrance to a library if he wishes, or is at least paid for it.

He has the right to deny his book being loaned out for free.

Bill Gates has done a lot to try and make windows more affordable. In India there is a stripped down version of windows XP for sale. He asks that you pay for his software in order to drive developement. He is making a profit off of it, the pay for a job well done.

You would spit in a figurehead of the computer industry's face just for your own profit?

I call the moral character of software pirates into question. If you refuse to use the free alternative and will not buy the software second hand you should not use the software. It is as simple as that. The only reason one would EVER pirate software is sheer LAZINESS and GREED.

Now I believe that once you buy the software it should work on as many systems that you own as you want. This is like buying a car and wanting anyone to ride in it.

But I don't agree with nor will I ever condone or give even a millionth of an inch to one that would steal from a software company just for their own gain or laziness.

I used to be a pirate.
I still have some cracked software on this system.
I've been buying every piece of software I have cracked, from the present or past.

Why?

I know how hard it is to make these programs and I realize that I am not the one suffering from not using a piece of software, but the people who wrote the software are having to deal with a half packet of ramen for dinner and cabbage water for dessert because of my own greed and stupidity. I want to set that right.

Do you think Bill Gates single handedly makes every windows operating system? Do you think that there aren't people that attended at least eight years of college working on them? What about them? Are they to suffer just because some kid in the ghetto won't buy a piece of software or use the free alternative?

I say no. I want great software to still be released. I hope that one day releasing GNU/GPL software and freeware will have a tax break with it. Until then I respect and applaud anyone's time and effort to write a piece of excellent software and sell it at a decent price. I would pray that you do too.



Scoots5012
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2004
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,397
Location: Cedar Rapids Iowa

14 Jun 2005, 4:48 pm

Kitsune wrote:
A program is exactly like a book. And you're right about libraries. You can access the internet from your library for free. On the topic of Bill Gates, he became the richest man in the world by using innovative techniques to create an operating system for computers that no one else could match at the time. He got a foothold in the industry and has not let up. His children get ten million each, the rest of his fortune goes to the gates foundation when he dies. To charity.


While his philanthropy is beyond reproach, I have to disagree with you on his rise to fame. Have read up on Gates myself, his rise to power seems to be more or less linked to him being in the right places at the right time.

And while his rise to fame and riches is the kind of story that could serve as an inspiration to all of us, many macintosh fanatics will tell you a less than flattering story of underhanded buisness tactics and theft on the part of gates.


_________________
I live my life to prove wrong those who said I couldn't make it in life...


nocturn
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 27

15 Jun 2005, 7:32 am

Kitsune wrote:
You guys have no idea how complicated programming is, do you?

Look at what artists make and what photographers make. Some pieces go for millions of dollars a piece. A copy for thousands.


Yes, I do. Look at GNU/Linux or Mozilla Firefox, they're works of art and they cost nothing.

In these times when PC's are available for under 300 € (portables from 600 €), the price of Windows and Office is completely unreanoble.

I do not encourage privacy though, today you don't have to copy commercial software, GNU/Linux is there for free.



nocturn
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 27

15 Jun 2005, 7:44 am

Scoots5012 wrote:
Kitsune wrote:
A program is exactly like a book. And you're right about libraries. You can access the internet from your library for free. On the topic of Bill Gates, he became the richest man in the world by using innovative techniques to create an operating system for computers that no one else could match at the time. He got a foothold in the industry and has not let up. His children get ten million each, the rest of his fortune goes to the gates foundation when he dies. To charity.


While his philanthropy is beyond reproach, I have to disagree with you on his rise to fame. Have read up on Gates myself, his rise to power seems to be more or less linked to him being in the right places at the right time.

And while his rise to fame and riches is the kind of story that could serve as an inspiration to all of us, many macintosh fanatics will tell you a less than flattering story of underhanded buisness tactics and theft on the part of gates.


It's a common myth that Gates wrote anything. MSDOS was originally written by someone else (I think it was called QDOS). Gates sold a nonexisting product to IBM, then went searching for someone who already wrote it and payed peanuts for it (without telling why he was buying it).

Later on, Windows came, which was mostly ripped from Apple (copyrights were even still in the Win 1.0 library headers). They were convicted for doing this in the 80's in France but blacmailed themselves out of the consequences with the Office on Mac product range.

Next step, they pushed the superior DRDOS out of the market by making their Windows shell crash nasty on it (with a cryptic error).
After that, the joint venture with IBM was supposed to bring forth OS/2, which they ripped of again to suddenly announce Windows 95.

Now they are up against GNU/Linux, which they cannot beat in the way they are used to because of the social movement behind it and the terms of the GPL. So they resort to FUD campaigns (which are ineffective).

MS is indeed very innovative, but not in its designs, but in the ways they invented to kill of competition and force defective products upon OEMS and consumers (also remember they are a convicted monopolist).

/End rant.



Kitsune
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 180

15 Jun 2005, 3:36 pm

Quote:
It's a common myth that Gates wrote anything. MSDOS was originally written by someone else (I think it was called QDOS). Gates sold a nonexisting product to IBM, then went searching for someone who already wrote it and payed peanuts for it (without telling why he was buying it).


Yeah, he did buy the rights to DOS and modified it. Note the quake 3 engine and Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy, Star trek Elite Force, and a ton of other games.

Quote:
Later on, Windows came, which was mostly ripped from Apple (copyrights were even still in the Win 1.0 library headers). They were convicted for doing this in the 80's in France but blacmailed themselves out of the consequences with the Office on Mac product range.


Where did you come across this information?

Quote:
Next step, they pushed the superior DRDOS out of the market by making their Windows shell crash nasty on it (with a cryptic error).
After that, the joint venture with IBM was supposed to bring forth OS/2, which they ripped of again to suddenly announce Windows 95.


Yep. They launched windows 95. Notice that OS/2 was launched and OS/2 warp is still used today. Windows was a shell for MS-dos and was not advertised to work with any other version of DOS, they were not obligated to make it work on any other version of DOS. This was perfectly acceptable as the extra time and work to make it compatible with the dozens of flavors of DOS would have driven the price up to an inexcusable amount.

Quote:
Now they are up against GNU/Linux, which they cannot beat in the way they are used to because of the social movement behind it and the terms of the GPL. So they resort to FUD campaigns (which are ineffective).


Actually, Linux is struggling to come up against windows because of the lacking directX emulation/support. It is not readily deployable for home users nor does it have the ease of use commonly found in Microsoft Windows XP. Of course, when something goes wrong in Windows XP it's hard to fix. With Linux it's supposedly impossible to fix a serious error.

FUD campaigns?

Quote:
MS is indeed very innovative, but not in its designs, but in the ways they invented to kill of competition and force defective products upon OEMS and consumers (also remember they are a convicted monopolist).


Yes. Linux is available for free download off of many websites and mirrors. Openoffice is all over the place and WINE is too. For some reason people pick windows over Linux still. Most computer users know or have heard of linux and know it can replace windows, but they stick with Microsoft. Somehow I can see why when I use windows 2000.

Quote:
Yes, I do. Look at GNU/Linux or Mozilla Firefox, they're works of art and they cost nothing.


Yes, notice the slowed developement. They work off of donations and barely scrape by.

Quote:
Yes, I do. Look at GNU/Linux or Mozilla Firefox, they're works of art and they cost nothing.


Grab the linux sourcecode, or the openoffice sourcecode. I know for a fact that Windows and MS office are many times more complex then an internet browser.

The computer is the paper.
The programs are the drawing.
The coding is the paint.

The bigger the paper, the more drawing it can do and the more paint it can handle. Yes, computers are available for under 200 USD. They are mass manufactured robotically. It's fairly simple to make the motherboards and the processors now.

The programming code has to be hand written in almost all cases and depending on the program can take many years to test. These people have to eat too. Simple rule of thumb.

If you want a program,
and you can't afford it,
don't use it,
get the free version.

'But I want a windows PC!' Get mandrake linux and wine.
'but I want MS office!' Get openoffice
'But I want lightwave 3D' Get a free raytracer.
'but I want finale printmusic' Use finale notepad free
'but I want the latest games!' wait until they're on sale for 9.99 or ask your friends to help you.
'but but but but..'

There is NO excuse for stealing. You want alchohol 120% to emulate all your CDs? www.daemon-tools.cc use this. I can name a GNU/GPL or freeware alternative to EVERY piece of software. There are no excuses.

Bill Gates danced a slamdance in business and won. He's held off competition and assimilated any that stand up. Microsoft is one of THE ultimate business machines out there and while you may not like it, they are currently doing it the best.

By the way, I absolutely LOATHE windows. I refuse to let people bash on it without reason behind it and without knowing how good they have it at the moment.



TaliDaRadical
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Gender: Female
Posts: 152

15 Jun 2005, 3:39 pm

Quote:
I call the moral character of software pirates into question. If you refuse to use the free alternative and will not buy the software second hand you should not use the software. It is as simple as that. The only reason one would EVER pirate software is sheer LAZINESS and GREED.

Hey, that's not nice. My parents and I ALWAYS pirated software. The first computer game I owned, Doom, was pirated by my dad. And guess what? My mom MADE software for a living for a while. People who make software earn 80-100K a year. Do you know why? Because schools, libraries, and businesses are their biggest clients, and are required by law to own the legitimate versions. Computer companies make over 90% of their profits from businesses, schools, and libraries, and only 5-10% from consumers. And only maybe 1/10 or 1/20 consumers uses pirated versions. And the only people who pirate in large amounts ARE consumers. If you're a business owner, you can be SHUT DOWN for using pirated software. Trust me, these folks are NOT losing money.
Sometimes you CAN'T FIND THE SOFTWARE IN THE STORE SECONDHAND. Okay? Sometimes NONE OF YOUR FRIENDS HAVE IT. Excuse me, but I have tried and ditched dozens of 'freeware' recording/audio programs and they all SUCK, so I had to get a copy of Cakewalk from my friend. And what if my friend DIDN'T have Cakewalk? What would I have done? Cracked the 30-day trial, of course. That's what PEOPLE DO. Cracking a copy of software is JUST LIKE copying a poem from a book you get from the library into your notebook for your PERSONAL USE.