Nagato Yuki-chan
beneficii, I didn't know that you referring her behaviors to conditions of that in real life. I am also making the assumption that you watched only the anime. The anime has the criticism that it doesn't fit and "over-hyped." Well this is because it wasn't originally an anime. The series was based off a short novel series, which became a manga and anime afterwards.
Nagato does show emotions, but does not explicitly "express" them. The only person who seems to notice this is Kyon, but he notes that only mere millimeters of changes to her expression. It seems that all of these humanoid interfaces feel something beyond what they were designed to do:
Nagato: A world where she can freely interact and express herself
Asakura: Kill Kyon and discover Haruhi's power
Kimidori: None. She doesn't stray.
Kuyuo: Tap into Sasaki's (childhood friend of Kyon who shares Haruhi's gift, except with a certain degree of control) power and fulfill Fujiwara's dream by eliminating Haruhi. (not in the anime, member of the IDTE)
In aftermath of what happens in the Disappearance, Kyon, Mikuru, and Nagato return to the past to fix the world. The older Mikuru knocks out her "past" and then Nagato removes Asakura and confronts the frightened Nagato by restoring her personality. "Why have you done this?" she says.
"Because I had wished so." Which is one the times where Nagato expresses an opinion, like when she mentions visiting the library with Kyon various times. So there is one human side to it, while occasionally pushed aside her programming and work.
_________________
Shedding your shell can be hard.
Diagnosed Level 1 autism, Tourettes + ADHD + OCD age 9, recovering Borderline personality disorder (age 16)
Finally, Nagato was based a girl that Tanigawa met in high school:
she probably never even said a single word.
After joining for a while, we began to work on a periodical published by the club. I really don't feel like recalling just what I wrote in it, I just know that it wasn't novels. I was in charge of the cover illustration as well, which I'm not keen on recalling as well. It wasn't possible to fill up the pages in the periodical with just the two of us, so sempai called up some of her friends to write some articles. Though they were all people I didn't know, one of their names left a deep impression on me, to which I still remember to this day.
As sempai was approaching third year, she decided to quit the club to concentrate on her studies. At the same time there were five new members coming in. I wasn't too sure why there were that many coming in. I was having so much fun in the other club that I soon stopped going to the Literature Club.
The next time I saw sempai was on her graduation day. I have no recollection of what we said then. We probably just had some friendly chatter, and then she faded from my memory. The last I saw of her was her back as she walked off.
As to what that sempai's name was, I could never remember. She probably doesn't remember my name as well. But, I'm sure she would still remember that a person like me existed in her club back then. Because I remember a person like her existed in the club back then too.
_________________
Shedding your shell can be hard.
Diagnosed Level 1 autism, Tourettes + ADHD + OCD age 9, recovering Borderline personality disorder (age 16)
That assumption would be incorrect. Regarding real life conditions, I am simply comparing her to non-paranormal humans, making the point that for example paranormal humans may also not be able to express emotions.
I was offended by the fact that people were saying things like that she doesn't express emotions means she doesn't have "true emotions" or that not expressing emotions means she's not really human. I wanted to refute these statements.
Other than that, I do not understand your paragraph.
Nagato: A world where she can freely interact and express herself
Asakura: Kill Kyon and discover Haruhi's power
Kimidori: None. She doesn't stray.
Kuyuo: Tap into Sasaki's (childhood friend of Kyon who shares Haruhi's gift, except with a certain degree of control) power and fulfill Fujiwara's dream by eliminating Haruhi. (not in the anime, member of the IDTE)
I agree.
"Because I had wished so." Which is one the times where Nagato expresses an opinion, like when she mentions visiting the library with Kyon various times. So there is one human side to it, while occasionally pushed aside her programming and work.
This is when the future Nagato refuses to synchronize with her past self.
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"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Last edited by beneficii on 17 Jun 2015, 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
she probably never even said a single word.
After joining for a while, we began to work on a periodical published by the club. I really don't feel like recalling just what I wrote in it, I just know that it wasn't novels. I was in charge of the cover illustration as well, which I'm not keen on recalling as well. It wasn't possible to fill up the pages in the periodical with just the two of us, so sempai called up some of her friends to write some articles. Though they were all people I didn't know, one of their names left a deep impression on me, to which I still remember to this day.
As sempai was approaching third year, she decided to quit the club to concentrate on her studies. At the same time there were five new members coming in. I wasn't too sure why there were that many coming in. I was having so much fun in the other club that I soon stopped going to the Literature Club.
The next time I saw sempai was on her graduation day. I have no recollection of what we said then. We probably just had some friendly chatter, and then she faded from my memory. The last I saw of her was her back as she walked off.
As to what that sempai's name was, I could never remember. She probably doesn't remember my name as well. But, I'm sure she would still remember that a person like me existed in her club back then. Because I remember a person like her existed in the club back then too.
You already shared this fact with me.
I wonder. Are we having trouble communicating?
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Let me rephrase what I'm talking about. Psychiatry has grappled with the question of, If a person does not display emotional expression, then does that person have emotions? I think it's really cool that the Haruhi series also grapples with this question and I find the answer that appears to be emerging really refreshing.
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
When it comes down to a lot of the series, especially involving Kyon's executive decision in deciding things, this is where Tanigawa perhaps answers this question.
During the Disappearance, Kyon wonders whether or not he made the right decision in repairing the world. In the end, he partially feels guilty because he misses the Haruhi with long hair and Nagato ("who would eventually open up to him over time") and that he's denying Nagato her wish. Debating the "watashi wa John Smith" trump card, even though this is what she wanted, it isn't right because it alters reality. He also thinks about helping her from "the attacks" that the SCD is doing and how she is becoming more human-like in the process, which he admires, but he and Kimidori go to battle Kuyuo.
This is later reflected during his interactions with Sasaki, where he wonders if he treated her differently, unlike Haruhi, he opens up to her. Haruhi, he typically is irritated by her demands. Though he once had feelings for Sasaki, he still remains good friends with her.
_________________
Shedding your shell can be hard.
Diagnosed Level 1 autism, Tourettes + ADHD + OCD age 9, recovering Borderline personality disorder (age 16)
Bradleigh
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Just want to mention that the recent episode was kind of awesome for the new Yuki point of view as she is afraid as the two mix with that static like effect. The emotions too as we saw something like her floating in the library as a great extension to what was essentially a one second moment in Melancholy, though with large implications. Melancholy scene bellow.
And just because the expressionless thing is coming up, I feel the need to mention Henneko, it is kind of totally different really to both series of the Haruhi-franchise, it is a an ecchi series, but an ecchi series with heart. And a character well done with the expressionless but emotional debate.
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Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall
The whole thing where Nagato undergoes dissociation, having experiences that made me reach for the Examination of Anomalous Self-Experience (EASE) (she seemed to at least somewhat match 1.2 Loss of Thought Ipseity, 1.15 Discontinuous Awareness of Own Action, 2.2 Distorted First-Person Perspective Subtype 1, 2.6 Hyperreflectivity, and 2.7 I-Split)*, made this series really interesting, but now it's back to there being a whole bunch of other characters crowding out the main 3 (Yuki, Ryoko, and Kyon) again.
* Copy can be found here:
http://www.nordlandssykehuset.no/getfil ... r/EASE.pdf
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Bradleigh
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Well, loss of thought ipseity refers to feeling *as if* you do not "own" some of your thoughts. The first subtype of distorted first-person perspective is similar, but allows for a delayed sense of "owning" your thoughts and expands the concept to feelings and actions. This comes from Yuki attributing some of her memories, feelings, and maybe thoughts to the "other Yuki."
Discontinuous awareness of own action basically refers to not knowing how you ended up in a place even though you had to have gotten there consciously. Yuki not knowing how she ended up on the bench struck me as that.
Hyperreflectivity refers to a tendency to take aspects of the self or environment as objects of intense reflection, which Yuki was starting to do with some of her feelings. Hyperreflectivity refers to a difficulty in "inhabiting" one's experience such that you think about it *too much* and in a self-alienatng manner, which was the definite impression I got with the way Yuki in the library reacted to her own feelings for Kyon. Notice how, unlike previously, where it was pretty clear that Yuki felt for Kyon, here it was less clear and required reflection to tell us; this suggests that she was not "inhabiting" her own experience, but was dissociated/alienated from it and had become intensely reflective. (This is self-reflection in an excessive manner, to where you simply can't let go and live.)
The last, I-split, came from the way Yuki felt *as if* there was another Yuki who was not her and came to thinking *as if* she and this other Yuki were interchangeable with each other, with alternations in who would be the one in the driver's seat.
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Well, that's the end of the series! Kyon and Yuki had a sweet moment at the bon-odori when watching the fireworks. At the end, BGM from the Haruhi series plays.
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Some may be disappointed at the stasis, but one should remember that the characters are still in high school.
I wonder if now they're going to make a Haruhi season 3, adapting the later books! You've got some interesting features, such as "Snow Mountain Syndrome" (in which Yuki is put out of commission), the amefuto (American/gridiron football) player from another school who seems to have a crush on Yuki, the Student Council President who makes what he calls the literature club actually engage in literature club activities (where those cool, surreal stories from Yuki come from), travelling back in time to complete the time loop at the end of Disappearance and a big time-travelling story in itself (with Mikuru in a more prominent role) which introduces characters from rival factions, and the huge Dissociation/Surprise arc which is notable for having a true villain and putting Yuki out of commission again (and which should be adapted as a movie).
_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Bradleigh
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I was not entirely happy that the series felt like it ended without much warning, the episode count was odd. It did end on some interesting references to the main season with some real Endless Eight stuff. It was interesting to get some Kyon side, but him saying he was more interested in Yuki's alternate personality felt a little rude that he did not seem to pick up on the similarities between the two. Alternate Yuki chose to confess because she was running out of time, but that same pressure of some resolution did not seem to be even through the show as it came to its final episode.
There might be more material that takes him further, I would like to see that done as anime, but worry if that is possible and thus I feel a little let down. But it was a very cute series with a protagonist I liked, and a particularly good arc towards the end that had a lot of work put into it, and likely worth a re-watch some time.
_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall
