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New Batman Films!

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Xenu
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01 Aug 2010, 3:46 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Xenu I actually like serious films and thrillers like 'insomnia' amongst other Nolan films. Its just that it does not transfer well into batman movies. I am actually more of a fan of serious movies and thrillers as well belive it or not. Its just that batman does not pull it off well.

You may not want to here this but the Dark Knight and Batman Begins are just proof that batman is better suited to comedy and a camp type of tone than 'serious'. I am sorry but the serious tone is just boring. That is what many critics thougtht when reviewing batman begins.

The Dark Knight was given far too much praise because its not that entertaining.

At the end of the day either batman does not suit the serious tone or complex story or we need a new director to tackle the serious aspect of batman.


You still haven't responded to my comments on the comics.



imbatshitcrazy
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01 Aug 2010, 3:59 pm

@Jamesy: comment on the comics.



Jamesy
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01 Aug 2010, 4:00 pm

I never read the comics nor do I really care for them. I am more of a film buff than a comic fan. Although I did used to love reading the spiderman comics 10 years ago.



Xenu
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01 Aug 2010, 4:03 pm

Jamesy wrote:
I never read the comics nor do I really care for them. I am more of a film buff than a comic fan. Although I did used to love reading the spiderman comics 10 years ago.


Than don't say that it SHOULD be that way because it is better for comedy. Because you have no knowledge of the source material therefore have no right to say that some is better when funny than serious or that it's not meant to be dark and gritty.



ouinon
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01 Aug 2010, 4:06 pm

This has got me thinking; why don't I like Nolan's Batmans?

And am wondering whether the reason why Burton's camped up excess worked so well is because the original stories were comics, ... it's why "comic book" is used as an adjective for exaggerated, cartoonish, simplistic, etc, because the medium itself is a "not serious one" ( however cult and "taken seriously" it has since become ); it was something "throwaway", ... "pulp fiction" in fact.

You could tell the darkest, most tragic, awful stories in a comic book, ... and it was still a comic book ... the medium is part of the message, part of the story itself. So Burton, making a film of the stories, replaced the "comic book" frame/context with camp and colour and grotesque ridiculousness, caricature, etc. And it worked.

What's odd is that Nolan is so into models of reality, the layers and levels of truths etc that we surround ourself with and are surrounded by, and yet he missed out that "layer", the original layer surrounding the Batman story, which was the "comic book". It's interesting.
.



Last edited by ouinon on 01 Aug 2010, 4:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

imbatshitcrazy
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01 Aug 2010, 4:07 pm

KaiG wrote:
Tim Burton's Batman movies were nothing like Batman is meant to be, though. I normally like Tim Burton, but the guy definately wasn't striving for fidelity to the source material.

Batman is not meant to be funny!


true. 1989 was ok (C+), while Returns was mediocre (C-). i personally don't like them as much as TAS, nolan's films, and Arkham Asylum.



imbatshitcrazy
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01 Aug 2010, 4:14 pm

Xenu wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I never read the comics nor do I really care for them. I am more of a film buff than a comic fan. Although I did used to love reading the spiderman comics 10 years ago.


Than don't say that it SHOULD be that way because it is better for comedy. Because you have no knowledge of the source material therefore have no right to say that some is better when funny than serious or that it's not meant to be dark and gritty.


@Jamesy: :thumbdown: i read a majority of the comics. i for one despise Batman & Robin more than the prequel trilogy of star wars. you have no knowledge of the source material, meaning you have no knowledge of the character. stop talking about a topic you have NO KNOWLEDGE about. it would as if I walked into a James Bond thread and saying that Die Another Day was the best James Bond movie. I have been mildly tolerating before, but now you are pissing me off.



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01 Aug 2010, 4:16 pm

I cannot believe that any human being has read the majority of Batman comics made in the last 70 years, or even just the thousands from the 90s. A few TPBs maybe.



Xenu
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01 Aug 2010, 4:16 pm

imbatshitcrazy wrote:
Xenu wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
I never read the comics nor do I really care for them. I am more of a film buff than a comic fan. Although I did used to love reading the spiderman comics 10 years ago.


Than don't say that it SHOULD be that way because it is better for comedy. Because you have no knowledge of the source material therefore have no right to say that some is better when funny than serious or that it's not meant to be dark and gritty.


@Jamesy: :thumbdown: i read a majority of the comics. i for one despise Batman & Robin more than the prequel trilogy of star wars. you have no knowledge of the source material, meaning you have no knowledge of the character. stop talking about a topic you have NO KNOWLEDGE about. it would as if I walked into a James Bond thread and saying that Die Another Day was the best James Bond movie. I have been mildly tolerating before, but now you are pissing me off.


This, Although I was barely tolerating it... And I hate the Star Wars Prequels more than B&R lol but to each his own. Seriously though people should not talk about something they no NOTHING about.



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01 Aug 2010, 4:18 pm

actually, i hate them both equally but that's not the point. that "never read the comics" comment really sent me overboard



Jamesy
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01 Aug 2010, 4:18 pm

Excsue me? I used to watch the old batman cartoons of the early 90's all the time growing up. The cartoons were VERY gritty as well and I liked it so don't say accuse me of having no knowledge about batmans tourted life. I just don't think it goes that well into a film though.



Xenu
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01 Aug 2010, 4:19 pm

imbatshitcrazy wrote:
actually, i hate them both equally but that's not the point. that "never read the comics" comment really sent me overboard


Me as well. I mean 1. He cant' criticize them for one due to that and 2. He can't say how they should be due to that.

Know the source material before you talk out your mouth Jamesey.



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01 Aug 2010, 4:20 pm

Jamesy: read the comics, then you can talk



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01 Aug 2010, 4:21 pm

ouinon wrote:
This has got me thinking; why don't I like Nolan's Batmans?

And am wondering whether the reason why Burton's camped up excess worked so well is because the original stories were comics, ... it's why "comic book" is used as an adjective for exaggerated, cartoonish, simplistic, etc, because the medium itself is a "not serious one" ( however cult and "taken seriously" it has since become ); it was something "throwaway", ... "pulp fiction" in fact.

You could tell the darkest, most tragic, awful stories in a comic book, ... and it was still a comic book ... the medium is part of the message, part of the story itself. So Burton, making a film of the stories, replaced the "comic book" frame/context with camp and colour and grotesque ridiculousness, caricature, etc. And it worked.

What's odd is that Nolan is so into models of reality, the layers and levels of truths etc that we surround ourself with and are surrounded by, and yet he missed out that "layer", the original layer surrounding the Batman story, which was the "comic book". It's interesting.
.


Thank you Ouinon interesting thoughts. I like Returns for the catwoman story and character, begins for the going around the world training, (i reltated to that i as i needed to get away and change myself) and DK for the anarchist joker. at least i heard he was meant to be anarchist.



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01 Aug 2010, 4:25 pm

KaiG wrote:
Tim Burton's Batman movies were nothing like Batman is meant to be, though. I normally like Tim Burton, but the guy definately wasn't striving for fidelity to the source material. Batman is not meant to be funny!

I don't think that Burton's Batman films are funny at all. I think that "Batman Returns" in particular is a profundly moving tragic story.

I wonder whether the people who prefer Nolan's version do so precisely because it "ignores" the comic book "frame", and as such perhaps replicates their experience of the stories, the degree to which they "forgot about" the medium while reading, whereas the few that I have read I remained constantly aware of the medium/the "form" in which they came, as I do with Tintin too! :)
.



Last edited by ouinon on 01 Aug 2010, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jamesy
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01 Aug 2010, 4:25 pm

I can talk because I watched the girtty cartoons. Its not about what batman is suppoused to about its making a good movie that is interesting and entertaining to watch that matter. :roll: