Aspie Supremacy and Aspergia.com

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My big thing in life is X-Men. I know the full stats and histories of a whole mess of the characters. I know how the world reacts to said characters. I saw an essay up in the writing section that mentions how we are like the X-Men... that we are seen like the mutants.

This idea, which I've had since I read the diagnostic criteria for AS and realised that I fit the description to a "t", was highlighted recently when I read an article on Aspergia.com. ("Rebranding Asperger's" http://www.aspergia.com/lead.htm[/url]) It sounds a bit like one of Magneto's mutant supremacy speeches, if you ask me.

Now, don't get me wrong, being associated with the X-Men doesn't offend me in the slightest, but that article kind of woke me up a bit. I showed it to my NT bf and he got really freaked out. He already wasn't sure that Aspies should be allowed to converse on the net. (I do some weird things and he was, at first, afraid we might gang up on the NTs. He's since gotten over this fear.) When he read the article, it scared him.

Places like Aspergia are great because they allow us to get together and talk about the challenges that we face. The trouble is, articles like Rebranding Asperger's are going to cause us more problems in the long run. People don't understand us as it is. Do we really want people to see articles like Rebranding Aspergers?

I've always thought of us as mutants of some kind, in a world that simly can't understand or embrace us, but whenever a group of people write about themselves as superior to any other group, things get even worse for them. We need only look as far as Marvel Comics to see what will happen to Aspies if large numbers of NTs read Aspie Supremacy Articles.

I probably never would have thought of this if I weren't a Comic Book Junkie.

Anyone disagree or have something to add?

I think that actual autistic supremacy sites are in the vast minority of autistic-run sites out there. But the idea of autistic supremacy, or of autistics as superior beings, bothers me as much as the current state of things where NTs (among many other groupings of people) are considered superior beings.

On the other hand, I think there's a lot more that autistic people can do than talk about our "challenges". (I don't use that word for it, for a number of reasons related to having a political attitude to disability-in-general rather than solely an individual one.) There are plenty of things happening to autistic people around the world that are simply unacceptable. There are plenty of views of autistic people that lead to these unacceptable actions being taken against us. Challenging (there's a spot where I don't mind that word ) those ideas and actions has a definite place, and is mainly where my interests lie at the moment. (Which is why I do stuff at autistics.org, which is not, despite a few rumors to the contrary, an autistic supremacy site or anything close.)

The reason I'm not as interested in the "comparing notes" stuff (although I still do a little of it some places) is because I've been involved in the online autistic community for five years. I've compared notes and compared notes and compared notes, and while I can still do it, my interests for the most part lie in other places. So at the moment the majority of what I do is focused on things about autism that are not individual in nature. I am glad there is a third option.

Although Aspie and Autism Supremacy sites are in the minority, it only takes the wrong person reading one such site to cause trouble for every last one of us. There is no reason for supremacy sites of any kind to exist and the ones which encourage us to either pretend to be like everyone else or to separate ourselves from everyone else are nearly as bad. Aspergia.com actually encourages any rich Aspies out there to buy an island so we can start an exclusive community.

We have to have a happy medium.

The stuff that encourages us to pretend to be like everyone else is probably the most annoying of all of them to me, because it plays into the prevailing (in the non-autistic world) attitude that we should pretend to be like everyone else. The supremacy stuff I mostly just ignore, although I find it worrisome. The separatist (but not supremacist/elitist/exclusive) stuff is stuff I don't take part in, but I can sort of understand why people would want to, and I don't see much harm in it as long as they don't expect everyone autistic to want to take part in it.

(The following is not directed at anyone here in particular, by the way.)

What I want, personally, is probably a long way off. I want people to accept that society has to deal with all kinds of people. Autistic people, non-autistic people, physically disabled people, intellectually disabled people, people from different backgrounds, all kinds of people. And to stop trying to find ways to either normalize us (in one way or another) or get rid of us (in one way or another), and to stop viewing it as a black-and-white choice between normalizing us and getting rid of us. This is a very complicated thing to implement in real life, and there are no formulas because people don't run by formulas. But I think we (people in general) will get further aiming at it than a lot of other places we could be aiming.

One of the biggest problems I see is that what gets to the media (at least in the USA) seems to be mostly that we are either inferior/defective or superior/superhuman. And that's what a lot of people hear about autism. They hear about the supergenius who performs amazing feats of computer programming and is way better at his job than the NTs there and says that this is why he doesn't mind being autistic, or they hear about some version of the poor pitiful person who desperately needs a cure and will never be happy until they get one. There's very little about how we're valuable as who we are, rather than what our particular skills are, and when that happens then a whole segment of autistics without those skills (or without having them apparent to most others) gets thrown into the "defective" bin instead of looking at all of us as worthwhile as we are. (And then "worthwhile as we are" gets caricatured into "But that means you don't grow!" and other strangeness.)

So people see these caricatured versions of autism and of opinions about autism, and don't really get to see the nuance that goes into those opinions. Then when we say "We're worthwhile as we are," someone doesn't listen to why, but simply says "Oh, that's easy for you to say, I know why you're saying that," and so forth. Even if they don't know why we're saying it. And even if we say something that's totally different from those stereotypes, once the media gets hold of it they often compress it to fit one of a couple stereotypes about us rather than portraying us as we are. I am quite nervous in that regard because I was interviewed for a NY Times article recently and while the reporter (who has written previous stories on autism) seems to have a clue, I am worried she will simplify things into a stereotype without meaning to. It's hard to get a lot of nuance into a 15-minute interview that will probably get compressed into a 2-line soundbite (and who knows which part of it, if any, she'll decide to quote). Even if she doesn't quote it, I hope she picked up on the reasons not to simply stereotype the people she was writing about, which is most of what I talked about in the interview in the hopes that if the interview doesn't get in some of the ideas still might get into the way the article takes shape. (But of course she has editors and who knows what they'll do to it.)

(If you're wondering, you've wandered into my "special interest" zone. )

I'm hoping any of the above is making sense. I've been trying to write on these topics but it's like throwing words at a non-word concept I can see clearly but don't know all the words around yet. So these are like the words that stuck to the concept best without falling off, but they do not show the entire shape of it. I also may have wandered well off of the topic into my own areas of perseveration around autism.

I do think how we represent ourselves can matter, and I also think that the main sources of getting our message out to wider audiences are ones that will unfortunately take even the best-expressed views and simplify them beyond belief. Which is the really annoying part, to me, is how much the media can twist things rather than really challenging their preconceived ideas about why we think what we do.

I agree.

We aspies are not inherantly inferior, diseased, or mutant. That classification is wrong. We have a lot of positive traits that many NTs do not, and we can think differently. However, a society entirely made of aspies would not suceed.

It takes all types of people to make society work. A society of specialists would not survive.

You see, back in the caveman days, yes, we needed people to look up at the skies, figure out weather patterns. We needed people to figure out fire. We needed people to invent the wheel. But we also needed people to fight the bears, catch the food, maybe mate with all the women, lol. I'm not implying aspies are specifically limited to either group of functioning.

But my point is this: we must respect the diversity of our world. Saying a group is just inherantly inferior is really an intolerant and close-minded thing to do. Certainly, the weaknesses of the NTs have held back a lot of progress in society. Yet their strengths have propelled us forward. And the same has happened with the aspies.

Now tigers aren't chasing us anymore, food is made in factory farms, and the need for intelligent solutions to world problems is becoming important. This is our call! What we must do is find our place in society where we can help the world. Not isolate ourselves from it and be all bitter about it, though I must confess I do that a lot myself.

But I guess my main point is that we all have a part to play in the world, and no one is inhernatly useless or bad. We just have to find our place and not let society get us down.

Yes! This is exactly what I think, too! I know for a fact that the media twists things to make everyone fit one mould or the other. I know that we can't separate ourselves! But sites that encourage us to see the world as though we're better or too different to exist with NTs are just what the media needs to get ahold of to put a third category into play. The category of autistic (because as far as the general population is concerned, AS and Autism are one thing) that wants to use those "special skills" to take over the world. That's all we need.

What I have seen in some articles that do make a distinction between AS and autism (I don't, as may be obvious in my writing, because I haven't seen any convincing evidence yet that they're different; I also don't do the HFA/LFA distinction) is that the "We're okay as we are" attitude is often described as an "aspie thing". Or sometimes an "aspie/HFA thing". As someone who believes that all people are okay as we are (in terms of configuration; I don't mean nobody has to adapt to anything ever or grow or something like that) I find it really disconcerting to watch my (and others') opinions pushed to the side and stereotyped in popular portrayals.

It's almost as if there's a strange sort of filter.

You can say "People are okay as they are built to be. All people." Or whatever your non-stereotypical opinion is on the matter.

Once it goes through the Distortion Filter, it comes out, "Aspies, at the very high functioning end of the autistic spectrum, say that they like being who they are because of their special skills that can contribute great things to society."

Even if you never mentioned "aspies", "high-functioning", or "special skills" or "contribute to society" or "great things".

That is one of my pet peeves is that nothing seems to get past that Distortion Filter at times. It is as if we are giving essay answers to a multiple-choice test and people who use the Distortion Filter just pick the multiple-choice answer that they see as closest to our essay answer. (I don't think the Distortion Filter is a uniquely NT thing either; some autistic people certainly can use it. It's annoying wherever it shows up, though, and especially when it shows up used by powerful people who make decisions.)

Yes, the distortion filter does suck and it affects us too. I mean, how often have you seen someone here say "I wish I were normal?" I've seen it several times now. Somehow, we have the idea that life is easy for an NT. It isn't! My little sister is the most "typical" NT I know, and she still has problems. It's like we think that life would be perfect if we were "normal!"

Taineyah you said "He already wasn't sure that Aspies should be allowed to converse on the net. " Does your boyfriend have a reason for thinking that we shouldnt be allowed to talk to each other on the net?

I'm not into the Star-Bellied Sneeches movement. I'm neither inferior or superior to Nt's; I'm just different.
I am for discussing the diffences and making people aware that Autism isn't just a stereotype and not mental deficiency. I'm for advocacy, not supremecy and certainly not fallacy.
Rambling again. I shut up now ^_^

While I've never read Magneto's supremacy speeches, one requirement for being supremist is to be intolerant. Aspergia, as near as I could tell, was more a message of "Yes you're different, rare, and must live peacefully with these people you don't understand." It was more of a place to give people an explanation of why they're different from others, an explanation that neither degrades them or confuses them, as our modern scientific explanations do in great amounts.

To be supremist they would have to add a chapter to the tale, "And one day Aspergians will join together and destroy the lower beings that oppress us and steal from us simply because we let them." At that point yes, I would strongly warn against associating with any Aspergia stuff. Since they haven't done that though, I don't think there is anything to worry about.



Jeez... I better read that article just in case. Oh that one? C'mon, it's more the style of Professor Xavier, with his "mutants need a special school to meet their special needs," as opposed to Magneto's, "kill all inferior humans, kill kill kill! I'm so angsty." speeches. (Don't kill me! Did I mention I haven't read Magneto's speeches?)



People will attack anything they perceive as a threat to them. Since most of us struggle to function in society, and can't benefit from many things NTs find naturally, we probably won't pose any kind of threat. The biggest danger for one of us is when people try to make us act normal, and hurting us when we don't respond as they expect. Aspergia helps this in a way I think, since it gives aspies something to associate with, something to rely on when other people try to manipulate us talking about the glorious camradery of war, or the importance of doing business at social occasions instead of pre-arranged meetings. (I hate the exclusivity of business done over a buffet bar.) People would have us think we are in the wrong, when there is a positive, constructive way to approach our temperament that doesn't have to regard it as a disease, but merely as a rarity that will hurt us only if people try to deny it.

And yes, Marvel Comics is an excellent source for finding good, objective speculation on the future, full of hard scientific justification, and not at all geared to be sensationalist, or to cater to angsty hero deprived adolescents. Why, I hear yellow spandex is going to be the next wave of fashion. Mark my words. (AAH! Giant robots with lazer eyes are destroying my house! The future is here, run! Run!)

Something I should clarify, since it wasn't in the movies, but only in the comics and some people might not know: Magneto's gone through several phases when he wanted to just separate from the human world.

Also, someone asked why my NT bf thought we shouldn't be allowed to speak.

Here's the answer:

I'm a little crazy.... in the way that I have grandiose schemes and weird ideas. He's afraid that if enough people like me got to gether, one of my ideas, or one like it, could be realised.

(ie, I get this insane urge to just start walking sometimes, to go find someplace where there are no people.) I have other schemes, but this is one that scares him a lot. He's afraid you guys might encourage me.

The Aspergia site has a valid role in the change in attitude of how Autistics are seen. They do seem a little radical at times but I understand that alot of Autistics have not been treated well in society. Some have been restrained, punished, sterilized and institutionalized simply because they are different and do not conform to the rules of "normalicy" that have been set up. Even recently, a child was murdered by a small group trying to "cure him of demon possession." This tends to make Autistics feel like broken, bad and worthless human beings. When a group is oppressed, belittled, overlooked and discriminated against, that group's options are either keep taking it and continue to be broken in spirit or stand up and fight for the right to be heard. Sometimes it may seem extreme or scary to people when these rights are demanded by the ones being oppressed.
I am reminded of two individuals that had two completely different ways of bringing about change in the US. One was Martin Luther King, Jr. and the other was Malcolm X. Both were working towards the same goal with two different methods. When I think of Autistics joining together, I think of these two historic advocates and their powerful words rather than Magneto and his supremacy speech.
-monastic-

The Aspergia website, from what I've observed, aims to develop not an aspie supremacy, but instead an aspie culture that is identifiable to those with Aspergers traits.

People who identify themselves with a particular culture do not necessarily feel superior to others, but can instead benefit from being able to identify their unique traits not as shortcomings or problems, but as part of the unique set of traits shared between members of the same culture. I live in a very open multicultural society (Canada) and am exposed to this every day. This is a longshot, but perhaps we can categorize how "Aspergians" fit into the traditional components of a culture:

Roughly defined, from the sociologial perspective, a culture is a collection of material and non-material items, that together make up a way of life, that are passed on from one generation to the next.

1. First, the material things:
- physical symbols, such as.. the orange bracelet?
- oral and written symbols, namely language

2. Secondly, non-material things:
- a shared set of knowledge and beliefs that influence behaviour, such as the way we communicate, how we interact socially

I suppose my point here is that an "Aspergian" definition may ultimately enhance the position of those with Aspergers in society, whereby aspies can cherish and respect their way of life, while at the same time respecting the values and beliefs of other cultures that inhabit the globe. Understandably, this is not always the case, as many wars have also started as a result of cultural conflicts, however many cultures do indeed live in harmony today, and I do not think the mainstream Aspergers beliefs are very controversial to mainstream society in any major way.

Just my two cents' worth.. any feedback is welcome.

life_observer

I can do things that you can't and you can do things that I can't...

It's like Fellowship of the Ring...

Dwarves aren't superior or inferior to humans or hobbits... just applicable to different scenarios...

"Marvel Comics is an excellent source for finding good, objective speculation on the future, full of hard scientific justification"

I agree - and I'm not being sarcastic!