Should 'Man of Steel' and 'Arrow' share the same universe?

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This is something that Joey Esposito over at IGN has been campaigning for since before Man of Steel was released.

(CLICK)

At first, I didn't like the idea, mainly because after seeing a couple of random episodes, I was not impressed by Arrow at all. However, I gave the show another look when it popped up on Netflix, and I must say, it's really a pretty good show. And, I think Arrow could actually be in the same universe as MoS now...

As JE points out, having DC's TV and movie projects in the same universe could be a good way for DC to catch up with Marvel and actually pull off a decent Justice League movie.

DC does have a bunch of TV projects in development like The Flash, Booster Gold, and even a show set in Gotham City (supposedly pre-Batman). There's a good chance that all these projects will be linked with Arrow which has already made reference to Coast City (Green Lantern), Bludhaven (Nightwing), and even introduced (a non-Gotham City version of) The Huntress.

So, it looks like Arrow will have a huge, shared universe even if MoS is not included... BUT if it is, as JE argues, they could use TV to dispense with the obligatory origin stories (God knows we've had enough of those) and use the movies to tell the really epic, spectacular ones...

I think that's a good idea.

Yes.

Green Arrow and Superman have been sharing the Detective Comics universe since before Joey Esposito was born, along with Batman, Atom, and Green Hornet.

Some of those "super" heroes have intrinsic "super" powers, some rely on technology, and some are simply smarter and wealthier than ordinary people.

Just as people in the real world have different levels of ability, so too do those who populate the fantasy world of DC Comics have different levels of "super" ability.

Yes.

Eventually DC will create its own cinematic universe in the same manner as Marvel.

Question: If a Green Arrow movie is produced, who should play Green Arrow?

I'm all for Arrow sharing a universe with other DC television projects, but they shouldn't try to merge the 'Snyder-verse' with the Arrow-verse. I think it would be such a terrible, terrible idea. I mean, for those who know how season one of Arrow ends, think about how that would look in comparison to the events of MoS. I mean, if they had planned on it from the beginning, it would be one thing, but Arrow has already taken more than a few characters that are typically found in Batman's neck of the fictional woods. Arrow has also killed at least one of those characters off, need I remind anyone. You have to start dealing with things like budget and contract details as well, which would really complicate things. Most people who suggest this are just bursting with energy and have an idea and shout 'I WANNA SEE THAT!' without putting much thought into it. Intellectual property rights are weird, and the way they're divided up and sold out is even weirder most of the time. That's not even getting into the details of the actors and actresses, and writers, and directors, and everyone else involved. Do I like the idea of a cinematic universe spanning both film and television? Hell yes! Do I think something like that should be slapped together after two separate creative entities have already been produced on their own in two separate mediums? Not at all. Trying to make it one universe now would be like piecing together a Frankenstein's monster, and it's not like Warner Brothers has a rich history of being able to create anything like a consistent cinematic unvierse in the first place, using just one medium.

I don't think Arrow would be improved by bieng part of the Snyderverse anyway, and honestly I think the Arrowverse is a far better universe than the Snyderverse. Man of Steel was not that great, and it relied on everything a television production struggles most with. I would much, much, much rather see a separate Arrow movie tied in to the Snyderverse if it absolutely has to happen. Now, this is really just about Arrow, not tv projects as a whole. If they make the new Gotham based series seperate from the Arrowverse and tie it to Ben Afflack's Batman, then I would be excited to see how it turns out, but there's really no reason to drag Arrow into the Snyderverse just because they happen to be being made concurrently. Not every Marvel cartoon is tied to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, why should Arrow be tied to the Snyderverse?


tl;dr version: No, it's a bad idea, it wouldn't translate well because of budget and contracts and the way MoS was focused. It also just doesn't need to happen between MoS and Arrow, two separate projects which were in no way planned to go together. It would be like throwing ice cream in your orange chicken. You may like both, but that doesn't mean they go together.

If they do make an Arrow movie, I would recommend that they stick with Stephen Amell. They got him to voice Ollie in Injustice, so it seems like DC likes him well enough. If they make an Arrow movie tied to the Snyderverse, however, (I don't imagine they would any time soon) I would recommend someone like Jesse Spencer, or maybe Charlie Hunnam. I guess more ideally I would recommend Chris Hemsworth, but there are a lot of problems with that casting choice due to his other work, so he doesn't make the list.

EDIT: Also, I did not vote 'No' as I think the idea would be FAR worse than Batfleck. Ben Affleck as Batman has a decent chance of not being too bad. My issue is more with Snyder being put in charge of such a pivotal part of the DC Cinematic Universe than anything else.

^^^ I think you're over-thinking here...

I don't know what they will do, but I can tell you one thing... There will not be multiple versions of characters in live action TV or Movies and there won't be anymore non-related movies either. DC is just too fixated of AVENGERS level box office to allow non-related movies EVER AGAIN.

Also, if they weren't thinking of linking the movies and TV, there would not be so many TV projects cooking. Once again, DC management will not allow their product to become so diluted...

Remember the great Bat-embargo?
CLICK

You will NEVER see different versions of a single character in production on TV and in the movies at the same time, EVER.

As much as I would love to have faith in DC management, they've been making a lot of moves a lot of people have found questionable for a long time, especially with their live-action projects, so I may be a little over apprehensive about the idea. If it comes down to it, though, I'd rather they cancel Arrow than let it be part of the Snyderverse. That's coming from someone who loves Arrow.
I know DC is angling for Avengers type cash, and they're slowly realizing they should have started putting together a cinematic universe about five years ago, but my hope would still be that they let Arrow alone in their plans. They would be doing some strange things to have a Gotham series unrelated to their new Batman reboot, but I personally think that might be the viable limit for DC. Marvel was able to do Agents of Shield because Marvel is counting on people to recall details from their big budget feature films, if DC tries to do it in reverse I think they're going to run into problems. I know they've been talking about Flash showing up in Arrow and possibly in his own show, and that just makes me think they're overreaching. People fell in love with Ironman because of RDJ, and because that first movie had enough money to funnel into the effects required to make everything look fairly believable. A TV show might not be able to show off the Flash's speed very well given budget constraints, and I think that would make people less likely to get excited about it. I mean Smallville started really falling apart when they tried to do more effect-intensive stuff that just looked ridiculous because the budget couldn't match the idea behind in the script.

While the merging of the Arrowverse and the Snyderverse could happen, I think there are many, many reason why they should not be merged. The same goes for any future TV projects revolving around big name characters. The Gotham project could work because it's essentially like AoS, it's more common people living in the same fantastic realm that the big name characters live in, so you can deliver some of the same product with nowhere near the same budget. Arrow works as a show because he's not quite a big name character and it doesn't need a massive budget. The whole Constantine series is much the same, though the budget seems as though it might have to be used more creatively.

^^^ Okay, I get why you don't like the idea... That level of spectacle seen in Man of Steel just cannot be done on TV--and really, it shouldn't be done on TV. The thing is, even if Arrow and MoS do take place in the same world, they don't have to directly interact very often... almost never, really. Still, I would like to see Arrow shooting kryptonite arrows in Batman vs Superman or whatever they end up calling it...

The shame is, Batman should really have a show like Arrow. Year one,The Long Halloween and Dark Victory would make three great years of a fantastic Batman TV series, and they could easily do it on Arrow's budget.

I think they would have to try far too hard to somehow end up having not only Batman but also Arrow going up against Superman at any point in time. My problem with the shared continuity is that the comparisons within the universe would end up being problematic, and they've already changed quite a few things in Arrow as it is (the origin of many characters, character traits and relationships, even the name of the city). Like I was saying earlier, the events at the end of season one would seem so miniscule next to the events in MoS. Bruce Wayne and Oliver Queen have somewhat similar stories to them at the moment, which would seem stranger in the more limited universe of what they are able to show on film (without dozens of different comic titles competing for attention). The perception of Batman and Superman would also invariably end up influencing the perception of Arrow in-universe anyway. They would also have to mention what other characters are doing during the show's run. That limits the undetailed gap between films, like the gap between Batman Begins and TDK. Are they going to really just ignore Superman's exploits for several months? Are they just going to be like 'In other Starling City news, Superman is still saving stuff.'?

As for a Batman TV show, I don't think they should ever do a show revolving around any of the major JLA characters, let alone one of the big three. Batman could technically work within budget, but Batman should be reserved for movies. There's too much that would be messed up in a regular TV show. They wouldn't be able to draw anywhere near the kind of talent that would have to be required of most of the major characters (You'd end up with a second rate Bruce Wayne and a second rate Joker, with third rate every other character). Literally every superhero tv show other than Arrow has been so horrible, and I think DC would be asking for trouble if they invest to heavily in the possibility of multiple TV programs. Birds of Prey was terrible, the failed Justice league liva action show was terrible, Smallville was terrible as soon as it moved out of Smallville, Wonder Woman (the recent one) was incredibly bad. Warner Brothers isn't a solid, reliable studio, and The CW is far from a quality network. They've together proven they can barely handle one superhero tv series and they can't even put together a quality Superman movie, so I just think they shouldn't be trying to pioneer new ground with a complicated multimedia continuity, or even just a tv show starring one of the major JLA staples.

So, last night on Arrow we got a good look at a Black Canary, if not the Black Canary.... Ra's Al Ghul was also mentioned. There has also been mention of Ferris Air (more Green Lantern), and Ted Kord (aka, The Blue Beetle). Arrow's world just keeps getting bigger.

I think the mention of Ra's and The League shows that either Arrow and the Snyderverse shouldn't be connected or the writers at least aren't planning it to be (and the writing almost certainly has to be green lit by a DC comics rep.). Arrow has its own thing going now, and it's drawing in bigger and bigger names (I think I spotted Scarecrow in the preview for next week, though that could be 'The Count' back again as he's the go to Scarecrow proxy if Season One was any indicator).

As I don't see any Arrow threads other than this one, I will also add: Slade is terrible at following his own advice. Seriously. I'm loving his character to death, but I hope they at least acknowledge that aspect soon.

Well, I agree that DC is calling the shots and okaying every reference. I also agree that Ra's being mentioned doesn't mean much as far as movie connections go. Since Ra's was the big bad guy in Nolan's movies, there's probably not much interest in featuring him in any new movies.

I think the Flash will be the deciding factor in whether TV and movies are linked or not. The Flash is a fairly well known character and a founding member of the Justice League. If Flash is a hit, I think DC will be inclined to link the movies and TV--good idea or not.

I could still see the plot of Batman vs Superman (this seems to be the working title of MoS 2) involving the government recruiting a human, anti-Superman team including Batman, Arrow, Blue Beetle, and even the Flash and Green Lantern. I admit, that's a huge fan-wank on my part, but it could happen.

The quote they used to announce MoS 2 at comicon did come from Dark Knight Returns... and that story did feature a battle between Bataman and Superman with Green Arrow acting as a sniper (for Batman).

I do realize that there's a danger of the movies overpowering the TV shows if they are linked, but I think talented writers could avoid that.

Prediction:

Summer Glau = Talia al Ghul.

Having the same Arrow across 2 DC universes in live action seems off. Having said that, it would be nice for DC to have some consistency with their superhero line-up. Something that hasn't happened since the Christopher Reeve days. Sure, I don't see why they can't have the existing Green Arrow in a Justice League movie as long as they don't refer to the Smallville timeline in any way. If the new Flash show turns out decent I'd definitely like to see that Flash in a DC movie, after all.

I don't mind Green Arrow and Superman sharing the Earth Zero universe but every time I see Batman in the same universe as every other DC character I feel sick, because Superman isn't very plausible but Batman is. I think there should be another universe in the post crisis DC multiverse reserved for Batman and all the other plausible DC characters.

Batman treads across the implausible often enough as well, outside the Nolan movies especially. Part of the beauty of a shared universe like that is the sliding scale of plausibility. The contrast is intriguing. Would anything seem as good or as bad if you lived in a world with exclusively middle class lifestyles? or impoverished lifestyles? It's being able to see both on the same stretch of street that gives more depth and interest to both.

I understand your point. When Superman is written badly, he pretty much makes all other heroes irrelevant.

However, when all the characters are 'done right,' it can make for some good stories.

As an example, I'd point to DCAU's Justice League and Justice League Unlimited .


The Justice League episode- Injustice for All is a great example of how Batman can hold is own among super-powered characters.