Nagato Yuki-chan

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Has anyone seen this? I've been following it.

I'm not really a fan of moe, so I'm a little disappointed the way this Yuki turned out. I wanted to see less of the shrinking violet and oh-so-cute tendency and more of the autistic-like, I-don't-care-about-stuff-most-people-do tendency that you see with the Yuki in the Haruhi series. Maybe 'cause I'm autistic, I don't know. Then again, she is, as depicted both here and in the Disapperance of Haruhi Suzumiya, clearly impaired, as she tends toward self-neglect due apparently to her tendency to become very focused on her games: Ryoko's support helps mask that issue. That seemed kinda autistic (or maybe ADHD'ish), more so than the Haruhi Yuki because the Haruhi Yuki can ultimately look after herself, being uniquely equipped to do so, what with her reality-warping powers.

I wonder what will happen if/when Yuki doesn't have support? Kyon's and Ryoko's support does appear to make a difference for her.

What interested me was that people underestimate that despite surface level things, there are some strong similarities that keeps Yuki true. In the movie, you can figure out that Yuki actually is kind of excited for the party with that she wears the party hat. She got a strong interest in games when she played against the computer club. And actually a bit goofy, like wearing the fortune teller costume when not needed, or buying the masks.

A major aspect of the original character was that Yuki was made with poor social abilities. As an alien it has her acting like a robot, and as a person the more other way.

Bradleigh,

Interesting post. What do you think of the Yuki spinoff currently airing?

Also, did you see this thread?

viewtopic.php?t=286821

Have you read the light novels or manga?

But yes, I think that wizard get-up on Yuki was awesome. She was cool during the student film, with her tendency to add "dearu" to the end of her sentences. She sounded cool when she said stuff like, "あなたこそこの時代から消え去るがいい。" This translates roughly to, "It is you who should disappear from this era." I also thought the scene with the ridiculously specific and verifiable fortune telling predictions was pretty cool.

On second thought regarding her being a shrinking violet, it seems that a lot of undiagnosed autistic girls are like that. In Japanese sources, the original Yuki is described as 自閉症気味 (jiheishou-gimi, lit. "(having) a touch of autism"), which is pretty obvious. Nevertheless, Yuki in the spinoff seems even more like that, only that Kyon and Ryoko help mask her impairments so she can get along well.

Another thing about Yuki, is that among the 3 humanoids from the IDTE we see, she's the most successful. Even though Ryoko Asakura and Emiri Kimidori seem like very sociable "normal" if affable girls, they don't seem to be overall successful in mingling with humans, especially on a deeper level. Yuki, for all her robotic appearance, is able to eventually gain the fierce loyalty of the entire SOS-dan (in the latter part of the light novels and manga, which the anime hasn't reached). Toward the end of the manga, her changes show. Once when they were discussing rival groups (like other groups of espers, time travelers, and aliens, who do appear in the light novels and manga later on), Yuki asked Kyon if he was scared, adding that she was not afraid, having a fierce look.

I am just mostly familiar with all the anime. I am enjoying the spinoff anime, it is about one of my favourite anime characters, and I enjoy her character beyond what people just describe as acting like a cool emotionless robot. Kyon actually explained that over time he had begun able to read the subtle changes in alien Yuki that actually shows emotion that everyone would think was not there. I think the spinoff is great for showing little bits that would be different if Yuki could show her emotions and without the burden by being just human, plus differs in tone from being from her perspective instead of the cynical Kyon. I enjoy the characters including Asakura.

Yuki is one of the few models I own, it actually has swappable parts to go between her with glasses and books ,to her in the witch outfit, which I keep it in the witch version. Although from what I understand she is largely an expy, I think she has some strong characteristics of an autistic person as it is mentioned her major problem is social. As an odd comparison perhaps I would compare to Tomko Kuroki, a character who has absolutely all characteristics of someone who has autism. She tried to act like Yuk's more robotic character to appear interesting only to fail because she does not talk to anyone anyway, which I think is a little ironic. Anime that go from making a character weird because they do not interact normally with other, to having a personality others just need to dig a bit to see, do interest me.

I think it's interesting to contrast Yuki with the other humanoid interfaces created by the ITDE Ryoko Asakura and Emiri Kimidori. What's interesting is that while Yuki seems robotic, monotone, even a bit autistic, Ryoko and Emiri come across as affable, highly sociable, "normal" girls. However, we find in the course of the series that for Ryoko and Emiri that supposed affability and empathy runs only skin deep and neither seems to have much empathy at all; Yuki has issues with empathy herself, but she seems to at least place value in human life.

Late in the series, Ryoko comes back and is basically chaperoned by Emiri while Yuki has come down with a terrible fever and looks quite sick due to attempts to contact the Heaven Canopy Domain's humanoid interface, Kuyou Suou. Kuyou seems to be even more alien than the ITDE's interfaces. Ryoko "protects" Kyon from Kuyou while she keeps the tip of her knife resolutely pointed at his neck. Kyon asks Emiri about helping Yuki out, but Emiri comes across as indifferent, even telling Kyon to forget about her. Kyon, of course, is pissed, saying that essentially the ITDE is a gathering of rather rotten people and that it was a miracle that he got to meet Yuki first, the only ITDE interface he thinks is a decent person. After Emiri leaves, he yells out that this is earth, not a playground for aliens. A female voice shouts back that that is a very funny joke, and Kyon thinks it's one of the interfaces talking but doesn't know which one.

I think this is interesting and I can identify with being only skin-deep affable. I can be quite affable in superficial conversations, knowing how to do the intonations and stuff and coming across all friendly and polite, but it's really only skin-deep. I'm just going through the motions. Because of that, I am in a position sorta like Ryoko and Emiri, where I seem to care, but I actually don't.

I think Yuki's story of developing an independent will is kinda like in FF9 when the Black Mages and Genomes, designed for very specific purposes that do not involve them becoming independent, developed independent wills.

In Disappearance, Yuki hijacks Haruhi's power to remake the world where the IDTE doesn't exist and she is just a normal girl. She still gives Kyon an out, which he takes, though the spinoff presupposes a world where Kyon either gives up or decides to keep the world remade (and perhaps if he did make this decision Yuki might have had a program that would then cause him to forget the old world to fully integrate him into the new world). The IDTE threatens to delete Yuki after this, but Kyon threatens the IDTE saying that he knows the magic words to get Haruhi to realize her powers and that if Yuki is deleted then Kyon will get with Haruhi and she will use her powers to destroy the IDTE and get Yuki back; Kyon tells Yuki to send the message along to the IDTE, which she does and thanks him for. It saves her.

A couple weeks after that, Yuki goes along with Kyon and Mikuru back in time to resolve the time loop that resulted in Kyon being saved. Yuki is the one that actually fires the gun that causes the alternate Yuki in the past to revert back to humanoid interface Yuki. The newly reverted past Yuki then takes off her glasses and asks future Yuki to synchronize, but future Yuki refuses. Past Yuki asks future Yuki why, to which future Yuki responds, "Because I don't want to."

At the end of the latest arc, Yuki decides to play with Kyon's little sister and his cat Shamisen, which was sweet. She nevertheless still has her characteristically flat affect.

Just saw the new episode after she gets hit by a car. Her personality seems to change and she actually seems more like the original Yuki, what with her quiet "そう" (sou) and stuff.

I read the manga for this episode. Apparently, after the accident she doesn't recognize her memories as her own and seems to see herself as a different person. Stuff like this can happen after an accident. In her case, she seems to develop major dissociation, feeling alienated from herself.

EDIT: Also, I just watched episode 9. That was very sad when it was clear she was hit by a car and her umbrella went flying into the air.

One thing I gotta say is this, I like my villains, and I like them over-the-top. I love imitating villains' voices, but until I watched this series all the villains I liked to imitate were dudes. I loved imitating guys like Grand Moff Tarkin, Palpatine/Darth Sidious, Jafar, Naraku (incidently the "na" in Asahina is the same character as the "na" in Naraku-奈), and other such dudes. I play their lines over and over again and often speak along with them. When I started learning Japanese, I got the Japanese versions of all these films/shows and imitated their Japanese voices (which were often just as good as the originals, or in the case of Naraku better).

Well, I really like the work Ryoko's voice actress, Kuwatani Natsuko, pulls with her performance, the first female villain whose voice I like to imitate. Her voice always sounds so concerned, cheery, like in a "let's all get along and be friends" sorta way. Her speech is markedly feminine. This does NOT change when she's trying to kill someone. At the end of Disappearance, I especially love the performance. My favorite is when she says to Yuki, "だってあなたがそう望んだんじゃないの[pause for effect]でしょう？" basically "But isn't that what you wanted?[Pause for effect]Right?" The performance is perfect, she speaks in a very very reassuring, confirmatory tone that is not overdone, but isn't exactly subtle either. It's just like she's back in class with her "let's all be friends" way of talking. Plus, she's dancing with a bloody knife! It's perfect! Kuwatani's voice acting has just the right bit of over-the-top performance and twistedness in it that it's just amazing!

On episode 10, I see a lot of comments being happy about Melancholy Yuki being back, in liking how she is cool for being indifferent to people and events and no emotions. I feel like people really miss the point of events and what she is actually like, thinking that she is has no emotions is incredibly incorrect, the correct word was expressionless, she is having trouble expressing emotions but there are certainly emotions there in what she does. Things like her thanking people for their concern, assuring them that you are okay, and the incredibly subtle ways in answering someone in the first place. If she was actually indifferent she would not answer them in the first place.

As having Aspergers, I can incredibly relate to the difficulty of expressing yourself, not quite knowing what to say, and not being able to socialise. It is very common for people to think that others with AS to appear like they are indifferent to other and have no emotions because they don't express it very well.

It can actually be incredibly depressing to end up in that situation where no one interacts with you because you are unable to reach out to them and you end up alone. People thinking that you are indifferent, it can be incredibly frustrating. It makes me feel quite sad for Yuki in that she has lost somewhat abilities in connecting with people further.

Interesting point. To me, that was part of the appeal of Yuki, because I myself was locked up in myself. In fact, when I was in Kindergarten, I could not do basic communication. As a child, I was highly impaired in just about everything socially, I was monotone (according to the records), and even had little expression of affect. My parents noted they knew how to communicate with me, though.

I see your point with the Yuki in this series. She possesses greater faculties for expressing herself, but she seems impaired her. One, according a poll I ran in the women's forum, it is common for undiagnosed autistic girls to be shrinking violet types, which is what Yuki is. There is also the fact that she doesn't seem very capable of taking care of herself, which makes one really glad Ryoko's there to help and that she has such supportive friends in Kyon and Ryoko.

Of course, the apparent dissociation from the accident reduces those capabilities more so, which might make things harder for Yuki.

As for Yuki in the other universe, let's hope she can eventually break free from the IDTE. She shows strong movement toward independence that becomes increasingly clear as the light novel/manga series wears on. When the new light novel comes out, I'll be interesting to see where Yuki goes from there. The end of the last arc had her playing with Kyon's little sister. Boy, that was one heck of a conflict in the last arc, though, with the kari-SOS-dan, "Anti-SOS brigade," which has 4 members who are counterparts to each of the supernatural members of the SOS brigade: someone who can also create closed space and was said to have once possessed Haruhi's powers, that person's esper (who can enter that person's closed spaces, but not Haruhi's; vice versa with Haruhi's espers), a humanoid interface created by something other than the IDTE (who is the worst of the humanoid interfaces that we've seen; also, the one that inspires the greatest revulsion from the characters), and a really nasty, foul time traveler with sorta sympathetic, but selfish goals who is quite willing to go so far as murder to accomplish them.

According to Wiki, "Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously known as multiple personality disorder (MPD),[1] is a mental disorder on the dissociative spectrum characterized by at least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or dissociated personality states that alternately control a person's behavior, and is accompanied by memory impairment for important information not explained by ordinary forgetfulness."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociat ... y_disorder

As she doesn't have a memory impairment, that's not what she has. Also, DID tends to have onset before adolescence and is a controversial diagnosis.

I see lots of Japanese posts that don't like the Nagato Yuki-chan Yuki either. I saw some posts on episode 10 that seemed glad to get the "old Yuki" back, but one did say that with the original "old Yuki," conversations won't work at all, which is quite true.

I've been reading on in the Haruhi series, and I saw something pretty interesting: Yuki apparently only eats curried rice at her apartment. When she fell ill very late in the series, Haruhi and the rest of the SOS-dan come over to her apartment to do "o-mimai" and Haruhi actually takes charge in the food department--she knows how to cook--and looks in Yuki's refrigerator to make something. The refrigerator is full of cans, which Haruhi remarks on. It's interesting to see how Yuki treats guests, as well, as she's in her pajamas--something other than her school uniform!--when the SOS-dan comes over and she answers the door and immediately goes to get slippers for her guests. (Yuki had missed school that day because of her illness.) Haruhi stops Yuki, though, saying that Yuki needs to get back in bed and rest.

The primary reason why little empathy is shown from Nagato is by the fact she is an intruder observing the scenario. Often times, she steps in to preserve this scenario. Asakura is Nagato's support and Kimidori is her proxy, so their "normalcy" is a guise for what they really are and help intergrate her with the Brigade (Kimidori with the cave cricket and interacting with Kuyuo on her behalf) and defend her existence (Asakura feeding her and "defending" Kyon). She does express affection for Kyon and wants to truly "become" a person but her guidelines state otherwise.

Kuyuo is also another autistic like figure, as she speaks softly and can barely say much. Unlike Nagato, Kuyuo takes a fascination in Sasaki, not Haruhi and receives help indirectly except from Fujiwara. Yet the same assumptions are not made about her because of her place in the Sky Canopy Dominion.
Haruhi is also viewed as a Aspergian figure due to her personality, but Sasaki doesn't display such a mind. Coincidentally, she controls her powers as opposed to Haruhi.

Final note: Nagato was based off the president that Tanigawa met in high school when he joined the litarary club in his freshman year of high school. She was the quiet president and the only member as everyone else graduated last year and she was one of his upper classmen. The next few years, they wrote a literary journal and wrote various reviews and pieces, attracting more members. Accustomed to his routine, she finally graduated and Tanigawa regrets not remembering her name or staying in contact with her. Nagato is likely biographical to how much she meant to him as a person.

BeggingTurtle,

Interesting, though I consider Yuki at least to be a person, a distinct person from the IDTE. The reason is that she has her own emotions and wishes, would at times defy the IDTE, can conceal her thoughts and intentions from the IDTE, and would often act of her own volition. The rampage she goes on in Disappearance where she hijacks Haruhi's powers to remake the world to her liking is clearly due to emotions she was unable to effectively deal with any other way.

I think to that body of work makes clear she is made of flesh and blood, with a human body with some modifications made to suit her role. For example, she eats and drinks, when touched by others who do not know her true nature and when Haruhi changed her into the yutaka in "Endless Eight" no one notices anything unusual about her body, and her blood type is given as A-type.

Some clear differences are:

The fact that she does not grow and was created in her current state, with the appearance of a small high school girl.

Her brain has functions relating to data.

She only bleeds a little when her heart is stabbed through, though it is not clear if this is due to some inherent difference to her body or data manipulation.

She can survive impalement of her heart, though it is not clear if this is due to some inherent difference to her body or data manipulation.

A couple of supposed differences to normal (i.e. non-paranormal) humans I would like to refute are:

That Yuki's lack of expressiveness is not something that doesn't happen in normal humans. In medicine, there is a medical sign called flat affect, described as a severe reduction of expressiveness. In psychiatry, it can occur in major depressive disorder, autism spectrum disorder, and schizophrenia: It is part of the criteria for all 3, being a listed symptom that can be used to diagnose depression, one of the deficiencies in non-verbal communication that can be used to diagnose ASD, and one of the negative symptoms that can be used to diagnose schizophrenia. In neurology, it can occur in aprosodia. I would also like to refute the notion that a flat affect means necessarily a like reduction in emotional experience. In psychiatry this is recognized by professionals and researchers as not necessarily being the case. In neurology, in pure mechanical aprosodia, the defect is only in the mechanical expression and not at all in the experience.

That Yuki's apparent lack of pain is not" something that doesn't happen in normal humans. Now it is not clear if Yuki does not feel pain or simply shows no reaction to it. In medicine, there is a series of conditions called analgesias, which are defined as a reduction in pain. In congenital analgesia, a person is born completely unable to feel pain, which last for life meaning they will never experience pain. This is a dangerous condition that tends to shorten the lifespan and cause infirmary, as pain is important in avoiding serious injury and responding to the onset of illness.

(To note, when Yuki "falls" ill, she seems to express pain from her condition.)

I wanted to give my opinion on Yuki's condition here and find this topic quite interesting.

This might better read as: "She can survive stabbing through her heart for longer than a normal human can--hint: a normal human would become unconscious within seconds and would likely be past the point of no return within five minutes--, though it is not clear if this is due to some inherent difference to her body or data manipulation."