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Are people being double-standard-ish on the movie Cuties?

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ironpony
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14 Sep 2020, 6:53 pm

Oh okay. When you say it's hypocritical for cancel culture, how is it hypocritical? People are calling it for it be canceled, just like any other thing in cancel culture that people want cancelled, so is it hypocritical when it's just another example of something being canceled?

Or what hypocrisy am I not seeing?



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14 Sep 2020, 7:04 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
This whole controversy shows the hypocrisy of people who complain about cancel culture, I don't even understand why the little known about the movie so strongly put into action for conservative cancel culture. It is kind of hilarious that before knowing much more than a poster that conservatives don't only want to cancel a movie, they want to cancel Netflix. A full display of the hypocrisy is delicious.

At the same time I also get behind not letting children being sexualised to sell a movie, that is gross, and if that is what it is about, then fair is fair. For me personally, I probably won't watch it until I get some confirmation that it is not problematic, but I am not canceling anything on one bad poster. If the topic is about sexuality and children as young as 11, I don't think that the subject is untouchable, there might even be a message that is in favour of not having children twerk in public.

I don't know if it is representative, but I just read a Guardian article reviewing the movie, which said that it is flawed, but not at all worthy of the controversy. Apparently the the twerking dance happens, but it is purposefully made as uncomfortable within the movie and comes out on the side against 11 year old's doing such things. The review made a connection to Mean Girls, which brings to mind a scene from the movie where the teenage characters do a "sexual dance as sexy Santa's, which I am pretty sure the movie was not condoning either, since the Plastics were not exactly meant to be likable and appropriate. Apparently the titular Cuties are actually a bully group that the main character joins to act out, the sort of thing that they are not being glamourised.

So while I think that both sides of the political aisle would be against a movie that sexualises children as young as 11, I think that the real reaction that is coming from conservatives is along the same lines as those clutch their pearls over the recent song; WAP. I am looking at Ben Shapiro. It isn't just that there is possible sexualisation of children, it is that it is women/girls controlling their own sexuality. Certain people get really bent out of shape when they are not just being objects, and themselves criticise the sexuality as them being treated as objects from being sexual, how conservatives don't understand sexual liberty of feminism.

The review that I read I think talks about a frustration from the girls feeling a lack of agency in their lives, and I think are trying to act sexual to have that control, I think that there was something written about a double standard put to girls. I do think that there is an interesting subject there, where girls are expected to act proper and comfortably for their parents and boys, while also having an inherent sexuality attached where they are expected to eventually become mothers and in some cultures be treated as objects to their future spouses. While also that sexualisation of 11 year old's is probably still wrong. Where does that maybe fit along the lines culture that slut shames girls/women for dressing too revealing?


Yep, conservatives are the biggest snowflakes of all.


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Bradleigh
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14 Sep 2020, 7:22 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. When you say it's hypocritical for cancel culture, how is it hypocritical? People are calling it for it be canceled, just like any other thing in cancel culture that people want cancelled, so is it hypocritical when it's just another example of something being canceled?

Or what hypocrisy am I not seeing?


The hypocrisy is who the largest groups calling for it to be cancelled are. I have seen names of groups like QAnon and 4chan as being the ones weirdly invested in the cause, it is conservative groups. You saw the same thing with WAP, where you had someone like Ben Shapiro coming out against the song, when he like the poster or choir boy against cancel culture normally.

You have to wonder why conservative groups get so invested in protecting speech that can incite racism and sexism, but turn on a dime when there is something like women controlling their own sexuality. And I think seemingly project things like what has been calling The Cuties as being pedophiliac, the sort of thing where PizzaGate happened, while ignoring things like Trump on tape saying things like that he took advantage of his position in beauty pageants to walk into the dressing room, and the whole "grab them by the p****" thing.

There is a whole lot of projection, where I would make my guess that the types losing their mind over it would be the same kind that think that by definition a wife cannot be raped by her husband. I would even say that this movie would be getting cancelled by the same people that used girls as props in the 2016 ellection.

Image


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ironpony
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14 Sep 2020, 7:29 pm

Oh okay, I see. Well I don't think I can judge a movie without watching it first, but a lot of people are saying they refuse to watch it, so I guess it will therefore be hard to get different perspectives on it, if many people are going to avoid it.

Do you think Netflix will take it off though, or keep it on?



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15 Sep 2020, 12:10 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I see. Well I don't think I can judge a movie without watching it first, but a lot of people are saying they refuse to watch it, so I guess it will therefore be hard to get different perspectives on it, if many people are going to avoid it.

Do you think Netflix will take it off though, or keep it on?


Why would they take if off when the controversy is BS? Stop believing this crap. And guess what look who is refusing, one not real people, and two sheep, both dumb.


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15 Sep 2020, 12:15 am

Great article on this crap, https://slate.com/culture/2020/09/netfl ... movie.html


and to those who's extremely stupid idea is that it's bad because it may turn people on I have this to say. The point isn’t the filmmaker’s intent—although he later gets around to dismissing that as “BS,” too—it’s that Cuties might turn perverts on. That may be true, but it’s also true of countless more innocent images,


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ironpony
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15 Sep 2020, 12:17 am

thewrll wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I see. Well I don't think I can judge a movie without watching it first, but a lot of people are saying they refuse to watch it, so I guess it will therefore be hard to get different perspectives on it, if many people are going to avoid it.

Do you think Netflix will take it off though, or keep it on?


Why would they take if off when the controversy is BS? Stop believing this crap. And guess what look who is refusing, one not real people, and two sheep, both dumb.


Oh well it's just that's the nature of cancel culture. If a group of people want something cancelled for a BS reason, it the people will choose to bend the knee and cancel their product, even if it's for a BS reason.



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15 Sep 2020, 6:10 am

Bradleigh wrote:
So while I think that both sides of the political aisle would be against a movie that sexualises children as young as 11, I think that the real reaction that is coming from conservatives is along the same lines as those clutch their pearls over the recent song; WAP. I am looking at Ben Shapiro. It isn't just that there is possible sexualisation of children, it is that it is women/girls controlling their own sexuality. Certain people get really bent out of shape when they are not just being objects, and themselves criticise the sexuality as them being treated as objects from being sexual, how conservatives don't understand sexual liberty of feminism.

The review that I read I think talks about a frustration from the girls feeling a lack of agency in their lives, and I think are trying to act sexual to have that control, I think that there was something written about a double standard put to girls. I do think that there is an interesting subject there, where girls are expected to act proper and comfortably for their parents and boys, while also having an inherent sexuality attached where they are expected to eventually become mothers and in some cultures be treated as objects to their future spouses. While also that sexualisation of 11 year old's is probably still wrong. Where does that maybe fit along the lines culture that slut shames girls/women for dressing too revealing?


How do you know the conservative reaction to this movie is simply them not wanting women and girls to have more agency in their lives? They never seem to say that is their reason.


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15 Sep 2020, 8:13 am

beneficii wrote:
How do you know the conservative reaction to this movie is simply them not wanting women and girls to have more agency in their lives? They never seem to say that is their reason.


They call it promiscuity or being vulgar, but they are things that are mostly leveraged at women. Men having a lot of partners are seen as winners, while women are seen as loose and bad.

There are indeed other reasons, like the whole children thing. I just think that there is a particular pattern that conservatives get super uncomfortable from those of the female persuasion using sexuality, over males that might do similar.


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15 Sep 2020, 8:34 am

The kids who are dancing like that are a result of *surprise* narcissism! :mrgreen:

The whole movie was about competing with another team because they were jealous of each other, so the girl in the movie found the next most outrageous thing to get the attention - dancing like a bunch of strippers. 'cause that would hurt the other team and they would get their attention.

I think the movie did this on purpose though, to highlight how wrong society is and how easily our kids are exploited but tried to sugarcoat it a lot with the mother being nice about it afterwards. (This would not of happened unless the mother wasn't a strict Muslim and could get money out of it).

The girl in the movie was very poor as well, so that would have gone to her head way more than a normal person because it's like your brain giving you huge hits of dopamine that she wouldn't be used to.

However the girl in the movie became heavily addicted to the attention/fame so she sort of got drunk off the power of all that, then she got validation for doing it which just made her worse off. Then a new narcissist was born and she lived horribly ever after competing for likes and attention from the narcissism machine: social media. The end. :mrgreen:

Also that movie was hard to watch, I had to skip a lot of the dance parts cause it was weird.


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15 Sep 2020, 1:34 pm

Lunella wrote:
The kids who are dancing like that are a result of *surprise* narcissism! :mrgreen:

The whole movie was about competing with another team because they were jealous of each other, so the girl in the movie found the next most outrageous thing to get the attention - dancing like a bunch of strippers. 'cause that would hurt the other team and they would get their attention.

I think the movie did this on purpose though, to highlight how wrong society is and how easily our kids are exploited but tried to sugarcoat it a lot with the mother being nice about it afterwards. (This would not of happened unless the mother wasn't a strict Muslim and could get money out of it).

The girl in the movie was very poor as well, so that would have gone to her head way more than a normal person because it's like your brain giving you huge hits of dopamine that she wouldn't be used to.

However the girl in the movie became heavily addicted to the attention/fame so she sort of got drunk off the power of all that, then she got validation for doing it which just made her worse off. Then a new narcissist was born and she lived horribly ever after competing for likes and attention from the narcissism machine: social media. The end. :mrgreen:

Also that movie was hard to watch, I had to skip a lot of the dance parts cause it was weird.


Don't watch child beauty pageants. Sounds like most of them.


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15 Sep 2020, 1:42 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well what I mean is the reaction to cancel Netflix is much stronger than any dance competition. So the reaction for it being in a movie has been much harsher.

Probably the number of people who have seen the Netflix show is higher than the number of people who participate in the actual competitions.

And obviously the people who actually go watch the competitions are ok with them, (otherwise they wouldn't go) so of course they aren't going to complain about the competitions. The people who aren't ok with watching the competitions don't go or stop going.



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15 Sep 2020, 3:48 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
beneficii wrote:
How do you know the conservative reaction to this movie is simply them not wanting women and girls to have more agency in their lives? They never seem to say that is their reason.


They call it promiscuity or being vulgar, but they are things that are mostly leveraged at women. Men having a lot of partners are seen as winners, while women are seen as loose and bad.

There are indeed other reasons, like the whole children thing. I just think that there is a particular pattern that conservatives get super uncomfortable from those of the female persuasion using sexuality, over males that might do similar.


This isn't really a conservative vs. liberal thing, at least here in the US. And I know here in the US, a lot of politicians have come out against the film, including some Democrats like Tulsi Gabbard. I don't know of any politicians defending it. Things may be different in your neck of the woods.


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15 Sep 2020, 5:42 pm

beneficii wrote:
This isn't really a conservative vs. liberal thing, at least here in the US. And I know here in the US, a lot of politicians have come out against the film, including some Democrats like Tulsi Gabbard. I don't know of any politicians defending it. Things may be different in your neck of the woods.


Defending? People are going after it and saying that it is pedophiliac before seeing it, it has been the narrative before even seeing it pushed by conservatives. The narrative set at it being exploitive of children, of course there would be a reaction from regardless of political leaning of needing to be against pedophilia.

Are you familiar with Pizzagate? It was a conspiracy pushed by the right that a pizza shop that had no basement was running a pedophile ring outside of its basement, I think someone even went there and fired a gun over it. It is the sort of thing connected to QAnon that makes up some weird conspiracy theory of a left wing international pedophile ring.


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15 Sep 2020, 5:46 pm

starkid wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well what I mean is the reaction to cancel Netflix is much stronger than any dance competition. So the reaction for it being in a movie has been much harsher.

Probably the number of people who have seen the Netflix show is higher than the number of people who participate in the actual competitions.

And obviously the people who actually go watch the competitions are ok with them, (otherwise they wouldn't go) so of course they aren't going to complain about the competitions. The people who aren't ok with watching the competitions don't go or stop going.


Oh yes, but what I mean is this movie has created more of a fire than the actual pageant competitions since you don't see people calling those to be cancelled, compared to the movie.



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15 Sep 2020, 7:40 pm

Sorry but I'm left wing and libertarian on social issues and no. It's not an ok movie from the clips I've seen.

I've only seen one article which made this a political thing. And one youtube video defending it - but that was by a creepy self described 'MAP' who said he was 'into' it (so for anyone moral, that should be a reason not to like it).

If people go to a dance show where kids have been directed to dance like that then they condemn the movie, they're hypocrites.

If they go to an all ages party where pre-teens & teenagers are dancing like that, I don't think they're necessarily hypocrites. Assuming they don't stare at it, 'enjoy' it etc but just leave the youngsters to their fun. Cos that's about choice, about not being directed by adults, the teens doing it for themselves or other kids etc. When people act shocked at that, I wonder if they remember being teenagers?

Big Fat Gypsy Wedding had kids doing similar dancing and was made out like it was a racial thing, this proves it isn't. It's not just Traveller teenagers who do it, it's all teenagers (& little kids who are exposed to popstar dancing will probably innocently do it like the Traveller children under about 10 who did it on that show.)

I really don't get why they can't just hire adult actresses. Same scenes. There are adults out there who look younger & who could cope psychologically with what's involved or weirdos being 'into' it.

I also don't see what's wrong with kids sticking to line dancing or ballet etc rather than those kinds of dances on stage. Adults who want to watch kids do sexy dances are weirdos.

Yes, right wingers can be awful snowflakes. But this isn't one of those times. This isn't Sam Smith going by 'they/them' pronouns. This is a moral issue rather than a political one.

I also think telling an 11 yo 'I was married at your age' is overly sexualising them. No kid should be married at 11 and it shouldn't be normalised that some of them, in some parts of the world, are married off so young. A ring on the finger doesn't make impregnating an 11 yo alright.


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