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Mikah
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08 Apr 2023, 12:29 pm

Well not really brokeness - you can't make Amazon go broke over a few TV shows. Notthebee noticed an interesting little tidbit in an article about the problems of Amazon Studios:

(tl;dr: Amazon's own data and focus grouping efforts showed that wokeshit is unpopular, and to use the Bee's wording "generic-vanilla-white-dude does something" is what reliably wins audience popularity contests)

https://notthebee.com/article/new-repor ... ff-putting

The scoop, which comes from The Hollywood Reporter, says that Amazon Studios quietly shifted the way it ranked shows because too many people were off-put by their focus on gay romance.

...

Masters notes during this meeting an Amazon executive pointed out "that data showed audiences found queer stories off-putting and suggested downplaying those themes in materials promoting the show."

...

On top of this, Masters also detailed, "Multiple sources say [Amazon's system] often ranked broad series featuring straight, white male leads above all others."

I think it's actually that an audience knows what they're getting with a straight white dude:
An actual story.

Viewers don't have to worry about a 10-minute background on the character's victimhood and oppression. They don't need to worry that 10 minutes in, there will be a short sermon on climate change and transgenderism. They don't need to worry that the main character will go French-kissing his boyfriend every other scene so we know how awesome and amazing it is to be gay.

When you have "generic-vanilla-white-dude" leads like this...

...you can probably just enjoy the show.

And – surprise, surprise! – that's what audiences want!


The section in full from Hollywood Reporter:

Another complaint is that Sanders relies heavily on feedback from focus groups, which tend to favor broad and less inclusive programming. Several Amazon insiders say the reliance on testing and data led to a clash late last summer, when an Amazon executive said in a marketing meeting for the series A League of Their Own that data showed audiences found queer stories off-putting and suggested downplaying those themes in materials promoting the show. Series co-creator Will Graham became greatly concerned about bias built into Amazon’s system for evaluating shows, which multiple sources say often ranked broad series featuring straight, white male leads above all others. One executive calls A League of Their Own “a proxy for how diverse and inclusive shows are treated.”

Graham launched into an interrogation of the system, questioning multiple executives about it. Amazon took the issue seriously and dropped the system of ranking shows based on audience scores. Insiders cite this show as one that Sanders did passionately support, but for months after it dropped, there was no word on whether it would be renewed. Ultimately, Amazon agreed to a four-episode second and final season. Still, several Amazon veterans believe the system remains too dependent on those same test scores. “All this perpetuation of white guys with guns — it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy,” says one. And another: “Relying on data is soul crushing … There’s never, ‘I know the testing wasn’t that great, but I believe in this.'” Graham declined to comment.


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Mikah
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08 Apr 2023, 12:53 pm

Bounding Into Comics also picked up the story:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/04/ ... f-putting/

I really hope this rumour is true:

This new report appears to lend credence to a previous a rumor from Hollywood insider WDW Pro at That Park Place that claimed multiple Hollywood focus groups chose a dummy police show versus a woke-styled police show.

WDW Pro detailed that the dummy police show was based on hacked together episodes of Starsky & Hutch that featured “two young detectives (two white guys, one Ivy League and the other a good o’l boy) are partnered in Vegas where they cultivate informants, recurring girlfriends, every episode includes a fistfight with chairs and bottles flying, every second episode has a car chase, alleys with blowing newspapers, jumping from rooftop to rooftop, unnecessarily overpowered firearms, muscle cars on the strip, Vegas location used to the hilt – from grungy and run down to full on glam.”

In contrast the woke-styled show was allegedly a legitimate show that was being pitched to a number of streaming services including Netflix that followed a POC policewoman in a southern where “she is shocked by the racism, sexism and abuse of power of her new colleagues as well as their poor relations with the communities they serve.”

Not only did the show feature themes about racism and sexism, but it muddied the moral waters as the policewoman “doesn’t know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys anymore and has to watch her back on and off duty while she tries to initiate change both in her department and in her community.”


Here's the fuller version of the cop shows:

In regards to two shows presented to focus groups in the past two years… one being a real show with a budget and team behind it, the other a “dummy” show used as a reference for the purpose of the focus group (i.e. not really in development):

Cop show A:

A young POC policewoman gets dumped by her girlfriend and transfers to a new precinct in a Southern town where she is shocked by the racism, sexism and abuse of power of her new colleagues as well as their poor relations with the communities they serve. With few friends, she doesn’t know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys anymore and has to watch her back on and off duty while she tries to initiate change both in her department and in her community.

Cop show B:

Two young detectives (two white guys, one Ivy League and the other a good o’l boy) are partnered in Vegas where they cultivate informants, recurring girlfriends, every episode includes a fistfight with chairs and bottles flying, every second episode has a car chase, alleys with blowing newspapers, jumping from rooftop to rooftop, unnecessarily overpowered firearms, muscle cars on the strip, Vegas location used to the hilt – from grungy and run down to full on glam, an explosion per episode, tough police chief who supposedly hates the two rookies but he really has a heart of gold, good natured camaraderie among officers, helicopter unit heavily featured along with a K9 as a semi regular. Vegas is Vegas, cops are good, bad guys are the bad guys and they either get shot, blown up or caught and go to jail.

Ok, so we tested three episodes for each. These were partial animatics with an audio accompaniment with limited voice cast (different for each). No music. Which do you think tested better with all groups, no matter age, sex or race? Please say you said show B..

The production house went on to pitch show A to a couple of streamers (one was Netflix) with a few modifications. It was always their intent to pitch show A, show B was only there as a control, an assemblage of classic cop show beats to learn from. Here’s the kicker: While episodes for show A where adapted outlines done by the real writers of the proposed show, show B episodes where quickly hacked up adapted old episodes of Starsky & Hutch, with the car swapped out for a Dodge Challenger. Very little effort was put on the audio and the animatics (we objected at the discrepancy in quality of the presentation materials)… but it didn’t matter…. Show B popped huge, just huge! The leads, the chief, Vegas, the women, explosions, the helicopter, the Car, the Dog! All!


I know I want to see Cop Show B now.


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ASPartOfMe
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09 Apr 2023, 9:34 am

Most hetro guys are turned on a either a guy or a girl going at it or two girls going at it but are turned off by two guys going at it. That is a preference, not necessarily homophobia. Since most people are hetro it should be no surprise that hetro shows are going to get the highest ratings.

We have to define a “woke” show. Just because a show does have diverse characters does not make the show woke. If show is a lecture, assumes the audience is dumb and racist that needs to be educated it’s a woke show. Also many times the diversity story lines come off as awkward and forced, just there because there as a virtue signal.

The Dick Wolf procedurals usually get good ratings. In the last few years the cast has gotten more diverse and occasional woke story line gets in. Those shows have always have had topical themes. But the shows at their heart remain well done procedurals. Those shows are probably viewed as dated and vanilla by “cultured” people but audiences still watch them.


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funeralxempire
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09 Apr 2023, 9:43 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
We have to define a “woke” show. Just because a show does have diverse characters does not make the show is woke. If show is a lecture, assumes the audience is dumb and racist that needs to be educated it’s a woke show. Also many times the diversity story lines come off as awkward and forced, just there because there as a virtue signal.


It sounds like, by that definition, a woke show is a show that hopelessly panders to woke audiences, rather than being woke itself in a meaningful way.

Although, when it's used as a criticism woke can often mean something as trivial as it has a non-white lead or it has queer characters.


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Lecia_Wynter
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16 Apr 2023, 9:30 am

I think most lesbian porns are pretty.

That being said, I think what is occurring with these woke shows is if there's a lesbian, somewhat that becomes the forefront of the show and seems to distract from the plot. As soon as you see a lgbt lead you automatically sense that the show is "woke" and then you no longer feel immersed in the plot. So that is why I think a lot of people lose interest in woke shows even if they sometimes watch lesbian porns.

Then there's those new star wars movies, which sucked eggs. And coincidentally were also woke, but I think that's more of a corporate thing. Like the corporation was trying to virtue signal so they just picked the most virtue-signally directors instead of choosing based on talent.

Also in the 80s there were black or female leads in movies, and it didn't seem woke, but nowadays when you see them you immediately get a sense the movie is specifically a "woke" movie, and you get the vibe the director is trying to make a "woke" film.



Honey69
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16 Apr 2023, 10:43 am

I really don't know what the term "woke" means--to me, it is just an overused Fox Noise buzzword.


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ASPartOfMe
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16 Apr 2023, 12:43 pm

Off Topic
Lecia_Wynter wrote:
I think most lesbian porns are pretty.

That being said, I think what is occurring with these woke shows is if there's a lesbian, somewhat that becomes the forefront of the show and seems to distract from the plot. As soon as you see a lgbt lead you automatically sense that the show is "woke" and then you no longer feel immersed in the plot. So that is why I think a lot of people lose interest in woke shows even if they sometimes watch lesbian porns.

Then there's those new star wars movies, which sucked eggs. And coincidentally were also woke, but I think that's more of a corporate thing. Like the corporation was trying to virtue signal so they just picked the most virtue-signally directors instead of choosing based on talent.

Also in the 80s there were black or female leads in movies, and it didn't seem woke, but nowadays when you see them you immediately get a sense the movie is specifically a "woke" movie, and you get the vibe the director is trying to make a "woke" film.


It is tough these days with everything politicized but one should try and come to entertainment with an open mind. As you said not all movies with diverse leads or characters are woke movies. Some woke movies are very well done and with some movies the wokeness is awkward, obviously forced into the plot lines. Often the woke messaging is an element of the movie but does not define the movie they still are spy movies or mysteries etc. Wokeness defines people and events by their flaws they don’t give a s**t about the overall person or event.

If one starts judging entertainment solely by its wokeness or even more so by what you fear might happen based cast diversity it is a victory for the wokes, they have started to get you to think like they do.

Most of Spike Lee’s movies are straight out political movies. Usually I disagree with premise of his movies but I find them very well done, powerful and food for thought. To put it mildly Spike Lee disagrees with the premise of the 1915 movie Birth of A Nation. Yet he screens the film to his film students because the filming innovations have often been used and still are used.


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