The Dino-Aspie Ex-Café (for Those 40+... or feeling creaky)

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That would be very much appreciated, Ms. Laurie.

Dr Weaver (Linda Fiorentino) in Men in Black: "I hate the living. The dead are peaceful."

And also Jennifer (Leelee Sobieski) in My First Mister, who goes to the cemetery where her grandmother is buried to commune with her spirit.

Edit: Brrr! Stay warm, CC and Richie....

I checked a bit more into the background. What you describe isn't mentioned in what I read. I'm sure it does happen, but it would be a different kind of motivation from what these people researched.

I checked the original paper in the article, and went from there to the first reference: Altruistic punishment in humans. The idea behind the research is this: There are situations where if everyone does what is good for themselves, everyone is worse off than if they cooperated. In the experiments, they distill this type of situation down to its essential features in a game. There is a group of four people. Each of them can contribute anything from nothing to, for example, 10 dollars to a common investment. The experimenters then double the investment, and distribute the money evenly, no matter how much any individual contributed. If everyone puts in 10 bucks, everyone gets 20. But if three people put in 10 each and one puts in nothing, then the three who invested get 15 each (a quarter share of the 30 which have been doubled to 60), but the one who gave nothing has the 15 plus the 10 not invested. Of course, the others don't see why they should pay for someone who doesn't pull his weight, so they contribute less and less, until cooperation breaks down completely.

If there is opportunity to punish those who contribute least, even at cost to the one who punishes, and even if you arrange repeated rounds of the game so that the same people are never paired up again, and you won't benefit from increased cooperation of a person you punished, two things happen: People do punish, even at cost to themselves. Because those who punish won't benefit materially, this is called altruistic punishment. Others will benefit from the increased cooperation that may follow this particular punishment. The other effect is that those tempted to be selfish expect punishment, and the threat alone increases cooperation, even before the experience. You see that in figure 2. So the willingness to enforce cooperative social norms even at cost is, by the technical definition, altruistic.

The new research asks a follow-up question: What happens to these altruistic enforcers? Will those punished for being selfish accept the punishment and behave, or will they retaliate? The new result is that this depends on culture.

Getting back to your question, letting a cashier make a mistake in my favour would not be altruistic punishment both because it benefits me instead of costing me something, and because the cashier is not exploiting others (unless you assume the cashier intentionally makes a mistake to harm the shop, but let's leave that out of the discussion). Excusing a theft by saying it will teach the victim a lesson sounds more like a rationalization to me. Every thief and con artist claims their victims deserved what they got, and if necessary they say that someone being nice and helpful is being weak and stupid, and justifies the con artist taking advantage. So I think your example and the subject of the research are different.

Gromit, The Wikipedia entry on "The Prisoner's Dilemma" is quite informative. I was somewhat surprised to learn that Southampton University has found a strategy that beats "Tit-for-tat" (although it "cheats", in a devious way).

I seem to recall that Douglas Hofstadter (or was it Richard Dawkins) pointed out that, in general, the (interesting) artificial games tend to reflect just that - that they are artificial. Looking at evolved systems (like us!), shows that altruism wins throughout. Lack altruism, and you become extinct.

We got snow last night!
I know this probably isn't surprising, seeing how it's winter and all here, but this is the first snow we've had this year.
Now, we don't get big snows in Tennessee like many of you do up in the northern states, or in, say, Canada, but we get BIG flakes. GIGANTIC, big, wet sloppy flakes. The size of pancakes. They're very dangerous, because if one of our wet pizza-sized flakes hits you in the face you will drown before you can wipe it off. So we walk around these parts wearing special SNOrkels (TM).

One flake landed in my back yard that is the size of a continent, so I named it Snowva Scotia. Came down with its own ecosystem - polar bears and everything.

Sure was glad I was wearing my SNOrkel (TM).

Quoting Chuck:

A double espresso for our friend from Tennessee. We must try to perk him up a bit.

All kidding aside, that would make a great kid's story, Chuck. Very ingenious. A snowflake with its own ecosystem. And the SNOrkel. You've got an award winning children's book going on there.

Curiouser and Curiouser Topic

Dear Gromit: Thanks for your clarification. I asked that question because I had something in mind, about psychopathic tendencies/traits. The study was research into more typical responses to co-operation. A very complex study. I should investigate the follow-up link you mentioned.

google "game theory". there's tons - it's been a hot research field for years.

Games people play topic

With 6, 270,000 hits, can you imagine all the calculations?

Thanks, Nan. I have a lot of work to do. All work and no games!

Lurkin' around.

Thank you Lau and you too, Grommit for your learned remarks on theft ...was the topic about that? By the time I got to the end of it I'd forgotten the beginning!

And you're going to start writing when???? Have you ever heard of Robert Munsch ( http://www.robertmunsch.com/ ) ?? You remind me so much of him and the stories........ hilarious! I agree with CC, you have what it takes to make kids laugh.

Chuck-ling topic

Yes, he certainly does have the Munsch-ies.

Up here in Barrie at this minute we are in the midst of a massive snow storm.

Send us a supply of SNOrkels, Chuck.

Also lüüürking.

hello there in Snowa Scotia! ( which means "Snowy Scotland!)
you crack me up, Chuckie, I would pinch your cheeks, but you probably don't have a spare gram of fat on 'em. . .

Merle

So here in Arizona, we're just desert.

On time I thought I saw water, but it was a mirage .

Chuck could do children's stories about ecosystems falling from the sky, while I do stories about frying food on the sidewalk.

An old story I once read said that the devil visited Arizona. He created big, prickly cacti to scratch people. Then he starts making the sun hotter and hotter, to make people sweat.

Then he took away the rain, so there was no relief.

Then he ran home because it was colder there.