The Dino-Aspie Ex-Café (for Those 40+... or feeling creaky)

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Nan
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03 Aug 2009, 8:17 am

a certain young lady is now appeased. thanks. :wink:



Botti
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03 Aug 2009, 8:57 am

Wish I understood what was going on in here. I must read this more often. But for now , hello!


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Chuck
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03 Aug 2009, 10:14 am

Hello Botti, and welcome! :D
Things don't always make sense here, but this will explain almost everything you have missed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1oOKD2qsQ
(...at least, it explains a dream Postie once had. I think of Gromit. Or maybe Richie and Lau.)



Chuck
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03 Aug 2009, 10:38 am

...this explains almost everything else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-0I2onm ... re=related



Gromit
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03 Aug 2009, 10:41 am

Botti wrote:
Wish I understood what was going on in here.

No one understands the Spanish Inquisition!

Botti wrote:
I must read this more often.

We do not guarantee that will help. But pull up a muffin and sit down, why don't you?

Chuck wrote:
How are students now being taught to learn? The emphasis must be off memorization now, ...but, on to what?

Depends on: topic, how far along are the students, motivation of lecturer and how the course is run.

Topic Fields differ in how much they depend on understanding concepts vs knowing facts.

How far along are the students Early courses usually give a basic grounding in fact, concepts come later. Sounds sensible, but I'm not sure it works. Students may remember the facts for the exam, but forget them immediately after unless they have concepts to link them together. I focus on conceptual understanding and test them on it. Comes as a shock to many, but once they get used to the idea most like it.

Motivation of lecturer Lecturers usually are specialists in a field, and have forgotten much of their own broader education, and if they remember, it may be out of date. It takes work to rebuild and update a broad knowledge base so you can tell the students how stuff links up. You don't get paid for that extra effort. Many lecturers view teaching as an onerous duty they perform only if they are not good enough to get a pure research position.

How the course is run The more lecturers, the less coherent the set of lectures.

Chuck wrote:
Is the emphasis now on where to look for info?

Do you mean where to find something or where to find something reliable? I give them original papers, and invite them to spot flaws. I explain why secondary sources should not be relied on for anything important.

Chuck wrote:
Are they being taught how to connect their ideas with one another?

In general terms? Not that I know of.

Chuck wrote:
How are they being taught to spend their time?

I don't know of any course in effective study habits.

Chuck wrote:
I do not have time to check the sources of each and every article, research paper and book that I read - how are they being taught to do this?

Do you mean finding the original info or evaluating it? They get taught to find the stuff. Use of scientific data bases, that sort of thing. Discourage them from only using Google and Wikipedia. Evaluation is taught informally, through discussion, and it's mostly part of thesis work. I don't know of any general critical thinking course. Make me education minister with dictatorial powers and an adequate budget, and I'll mandate critical thinking courses at both primary and secondary education levels. Give me more power, and I'll only let people vote who can demonstrate critical thinking skills on material where they agree with the conclusions. You can guess at the rant lurking behind that sentiment, so I'll spare you the details.



richie
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03 Aug 2009, 10:48 am

Chuck wrote:
Hello Botti, and welcome! :D
Things don't always make sense here, but this will explain almost everything you have missed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1oOKD2qsQ
(...at least, it explains a dream Postie once had. I think of Gromit. Or maybe Richie and Lau.)


The herring bone pattern on the floor in some scenes reminds me of migraine aura....<shudders> 8O


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Botti
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03 Aug 2009, 11:12 am

Chuck wrote:
...this explains almost everything else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-0I2onm ... re=related


Thanks for the tutorials!! :lol:


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Botti
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03 Aug 2009, 11:14 am

richie wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Hello Botti, and welcome! :D
Things don't always make sense here, but this will explain almost everything you have missed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1oOKD2qsQ
(...at least, it explains a dream Postie once had. I think of Gromit. Or maybe Richie and Lau.)


The herring bone pattern on the floor in some scenes reminds me of migraine aura....<shudders> 8O


Hey, I have vestibular balance problems because I am deaf!

Good thing I was sitting down to watch! :)


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Chuck
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03 Aug 2009, 11:25 am

Gromit wrote:
Chuck wrote:
How are students now being taught to learn? The emphasis must be off memorization now, ...but, on to what?

Depends on: topic, how far along are the students, motivation of lecturer and how the course is run.

Topic Fields differ in how much they depend on understanding concepts vs knowing facts.

How far along are the students Early courses usually give a basic grounding in fact, concepts come later. Sounds sensible, but I'm not sure it works. Students may remember the facts for the exam, but forget them immediately after unless they have concepts to link them together. I focus on conceptual understanding and test them on it. Comes as a shock to many, but once they get used to the idea most like it.

Motivation of lecturer Lecturers usually are specialists in a field, and have forgotten much of their own broader education, and if they remember, it may be out of date. It takes work to rebuild and update a broad knowledge base so you can tell the students how stuff links up. You don't get paid for that extra effort. Many lecturers view teaching as an onerous duty they perform only if they are not good enough to get a pure research position.

How the course is run The more lecturers, the less coherent the set of lectures.

Chuck wrote:
Is the emphasis now on where to look for info?

Do you mean where to find something or where to find something reliable? I give them original papers, and invite them to spot flaws. I explain why secondary sources should not be relied on for anything important.

Chuck wrote:
Are they being taught how to connect their ideas with one another?

In general terms? Not that I know of.

Chuck wrote:
How are they being taught to spend their time?

I don't know of any course in effective study habits.

Chuck wrote:
I do not have time to check the sources of each and every article, research paper and book that I read - how are they being taught to do this?

Do you mean finding the original info or evaluating it? They get taught to find the stuff. Use of scientific data bases, that sort of thing. Discourage them from only using Google and Wikipedia. Evaluation is taught informally, through discussion, and it's mostly part of thesis work. I don't know of any general critical thinking course. Make me education minister with dictatorial powers and an adequate budget, and I'll mandate critical thinking courses at both primary and secondary education levels. Give me more power, and I'll only let people vote who can demonstrate critical thinking skills on material where they agree with the conclusions. You can guess at the rant lurking behind that sentiment, so I'll spare you the details.


8O

...erm...

You mean there really isn't a magic wand?
No secret shortcut I wasn't filled in on?!?

8O

I gotta do actual WORK???! !!???

8O

Dang. Last time I ask you.



Chuck
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03 Aug 2009, 11:28 am

Botti wrote:
...Hey, I have vestibular balance problems because I am deaf!

Good thing I was sitting down to watch! :)


:oops: Oops! Forgot to warn you - that video must be viewed upside down and played backwards.
That should help! :P



Botti
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03 Aug 2009, 12:40 pm

Chuck wrote:
Botti wrote:
...Hey, I have vestibular balance problems because I am deaf!

Good thing I was sitting down to watch! :)


:oops: Oops! Forgot to warn you - that video must be viewed upside down and played backwards.
That should help! :P


Thanks a lot! I am off to try to put your kind instructions into action. ;)


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Nan
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03 Aug 2009, 1:16 pm

Chuck - About how people are taught. Let me base my comments on the field/dept/university with which I am currently affiliated and in general terms only:

Intro classes at the Undergrad level: they pile on the facts. Taught by graduate students who are teaching assistants or by temporary, "hired gun" lecturers who are not on a permanent contract with the university. The kids ask for and pretty much get a description of "what will be on the test", along with practice sessions (!?!?!) ahead of time. Tests tend to be multiple-choice in classes where there are 250 to 300 students, but are written in the smaller classes. Students are required to show their work on their test booklets when taking the mechanical/technical classes to prove they have a handle on how things work. I doubt very seriously that there is any "how to think" or "global" presentation of information. It's all about teaching them the basic mechanics and conversational abilities. Most of them, unless planning a career in the field, couldn't tell you what they'd learned three months later.

Graduate level is as it should be, thank goodness. This field has a very concrete aspect and some very, very theoretical ones. At the graduate level the faculty pass along what they think is current theory, but the students pretty much specialize down into one or two sub-disciplines and go with what's known there. They are going to be the ones expected to create the new information, so most of the dept's energy and resources are directed into them. While I'm often quite upset with what some folks might consider elitism here in this particular venue, I have to admit they turn out some incredibly sharp, well-prepared academics.



Chuck
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03 Aug 2009, 8:06 pm

I appreciate your input Gromit and Nan! :D
I know my questions were vague and poorly worded.
A result of the lack of clarity in my own thinking,
and not knowing exactly what it was that I was seeking.

I took a break this afternoon, happened to spot some wild turkeys
meandering my woods. After watching them for a bit, a lightbulb went off
in my head that explained exactly what I needed to know!

Your input helped set up the spark!

I know what to do now, so I appreciate yas! :D



DeaconBlues
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04 Aug 2009, 1:39 am

Chuck wrote:
I took a break this afternoon, happened to spot some wild turkeys
meandering my woods. After watching them for a bit, a lightbulb went off
in my head that explained exactly what I needed to know!

I know what to do now...

Go drink some Wild Turkey? :)


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lau
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04 Aug 2009, 6:40 am

I use the "quick absorb" technique for learning.

I gently unscrew the top section of my skull, take a book, and dab it gently up and down against my exposed brain. After a few minutes, all the information from the book seeps down into my mind. I repeat the process with any further books I wish to absorb, and then reattach my upper skull section.

I generally don't do this in public places, as I have found most people are very squeamish about such processes.


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Chuck
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04 Aug 2009, 9:22 am

DeaconBlues wrote:
Chuck wrote:
I took a break this afternoon, happened to spot some wild turkeys
meandering my woods. After watching them for a bit, a lightbulb went off
in my head that explained exactly what I needed to know!

I know what to do now...

Go drink some Wild Turkey? :)


Ding ding ding ding ding diiiinnnnnng!! !! !
You are Ko-rect, sah!! !! :lol:
:drunken: