Epiphanies and Revelations

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I don't see how that mean that anything they did was wrong, how do you know the people that say they were wrong aren't wrong themselves?

Popular opinion is no measure of right and wrong (if there is such a thing) nor is it any measure for sanity.


Budda said,
Do not believe any one, do not even believe what I am telling you now. (or words to that effect)

I would say that the whole of mathematics is merely a theory based on axioms.

Axioms are not in them selfs true, though they are taken to be true.

As such there is nothing really true about mathematics, it is all theoretical.

that is mathematics and prime number are essentially man made.

Though they are based on observations and finding patterns in observations. That is a form of inelegance, but it does not involve creativity as such.

So to say that prime numbers are proof of inelegance, is to say no more than they are proof of 'deterministic' inelegance and not of any form of creative inelegance or intelligence that posses free will.

I can calculate that a vessel will hold a liter.
A liter of water also fits in to the vessel.

Is the water therefore intelligent, because it knew exactly how much of itself to put into the vessel to make a liter?

It has made exactly the same measurement I did using my intelligence.

You cannot expect me to take this question serious,

You are saying :

Presented you with no evidence... the Communist slaughter of 100 million... were based on insanity.

Whoooooahhhh... I think the 100 Million death toll speaks for itself, or do you think Communists are "sane" and for the moral good of the planet, slaughtered, tortured, repressed and overthrew whole nations through terrorism... leaving a swath of mass-graves, widespread famine (such as the manmade famine of Ukraine, in which 7 million starved to death between 1932-1933), -- the Holodomor -- Stalin boasted to Roosevelt that a total of 14.5 million died cumulatively between 1931-1934 (Yalta) he was rather proud of the death tolls... besides famines, exploitation of the weak, persecution against people of faith, every major war of the past century.. ? You call this "sanity"? One example of Atheist intellect was Mao's stupid policies which lead to 25,000,000 dead, in the "Great Leap Forward" because.. he was a psychopath and lunatic that didn't know jack about government administration. He was a fruitcake who tried to portray himself like a god.

and continuing here,

"Presented you with no evidence... their Communist killing of 100 million... are in any way a sign of insanity or wrong doing"



HOW MANY DID
COMMUNIST REGIMES MURDER?*
By R.J. Rummel
"...But communists could not be wrong. After all, their knowledge was scientific, based on historical materialism, an understanding of the dialectical process in nature and human society, and a materialist (and thus realistic) view of nature. Marx has shown empirically where society has been and why, and he and his interpreters proved that it was destined for a communist end. No one could prevent this, but only stand in the way and delay it at the cost of more human misery. Those who disagreed with this world view and even with some of the proper interpretations of Marx and Lenin were, without a scintilla of doubt, wrong. After all, did not Marx or Lenin or Stalin or Mao say that. . . . In other words, communism was like a fanatical religion. It had its revealed text and chief interpreters. It had its priests and their ritualistic prose with all the answers. It had a heaven, and the proper behavior to reach it. It had its appeal to faith. And it had its crusade against nonbelievers."
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM

Sounds like Atheism erm, Communism is as fruity as any other organized Religion(TM) when it seizes state power.



And atheism, like any other religions belong in the wastebasket that is "philosophy".



You will deny what your own eyes have read?

Yes, "denial" of a fact is a side effect of Religion(TM)

Communism - New World Encyclopedia
Marx formulated communism within an atheistic framework. ... The Marxist theory of surplus value was an integral part of his whole system of thought, ...
-newworldencyclopedia org/entry/Communism

Atheists ran the regimes. Atheists imposed atheism on its citizens. People of faith had to hide in secret to even read a Bible. But Atheists went one step farther, knowing nobody would ever accept their stupid ideologue or politics, they simply spied on everyone, placed heavy censorship on all media, and if you were even caught checking out the wrong book at the library it might result in a death sentence, or worse.

I am communist, I wound in no way call the people you mentioned communists. In the same way that I would in no way call the USA or the UK democratic countries.

Yes, people vote. But that is not democracy.

The reason Atheism is the basis of communism is that the aim of communism is for the people to have no ruler. To achieve that all 'false' believe must be removed from the system (that requires some level of imposition to attain).

I say false belief because Atheists don't become atheists (in general) they just are, and they all independently hold many of the same founding beliefs.

On the other hand, most religions are organized, and religious people don't really ever seem to agree on anything and certainly no independently.

communism is merely an understanding that everyone should be held with indifference. It is to understand that we are all different and that we did not choose to have those differences. It is an understanding that people should not be judged for being who they are.

Christianity and some aspects of Judaism are very good examples of communist systems. Organized religions and states based on Christian teachings are however not.

This has nothing to do with intelligence. You feel your Atheist philosophy is under the gun, and there's nothing I enjoy more than being an Equal Opportunity critic of Theists and Atheists alike. Having been in the thick of the debates between Atheism and Theism, and seeing how badly both extremes resort to deceit, lies, hatemongering and has done nothing good for the world, and responsible for unleashing the worst evils mankind ever brought on itself.

Atheism, like Theistic religions belong in the dung-heap that is "Philosophy". Atheism is not "Science" by any stretch of the imagination. (Now there's a true delusion!)

Philosophy is rubbish, and here's an Atheist on that very subject of Philosophy:

"Philosophy today is largely a "pose." It seeks to impress the world with its high-power vocabulary and bewildering nomenclature. It has deliberately fuddled and befogged because it has nothing to say, and is precisely what it is, in all its verbal obscurity, because of its vacuity.
My plea is for science, the sole medium for the acquisition of knowledge. It consists of a rigid adherence to facts and the rejection of everything that cannot be measured by the yardstick of experience.
In conclusion: Don't be browbeaten by philosophy. Don't take empty, unintelligible verbalism for knowledge. In a word, ditch the philosophers."
-Woolsey Teller, Essays of an Atheist, 1945

I have consumed about forty years of my pilgrimage in two or three corners of the world, seeking the philosopher's stone called truth. I have consulted all the adepts of antiquity, Epicurus and Augustine, Plato and Malebranche, and I still remain in ignorance. In all the crucibles of philosophers,there are perhaps two or three ounces of gold, but all the rest is caput moyuum, insipid mire, from which nothing can he extracted.
-- VOLTAIRE.

Philosophers are wonderful people. The less they understand of a thing, the more words they make over it ... As Spiller remarks, they possess the most extraordinary talent for bringing the simplest things into the most boundless confusion, and they water and plaster over the simplest ideas and opinions with such a mass of high-sounding, apparently learned, but in reality empty and unintelligible words and phrases, that a rational man loses his senses over it.
-- LUDWIG BUCHNER, Force and Matter, p. 257.

It cannot be maintained that philosophy has had any very great measure of success in its attempts to provide definite answers to its questions. If you ask a mathematician, a mineralogist, a historian, or any other man of learning, what body of definite truths has been ascertained by his science, his answer will last as long as you are willing to listen. But if you put the same question to a philosopher, he will, if he is candid,:have to confess that his study has not achieved positive results such as have been achieved by other sciences.
-- BERTRAND RUSSELL, The Problems of Philosophy, p. 239

I am not concerned with philosophy as such, since it seems to me to lead to no agreed and substantial results.
- JOSEPH McCABE, Life and Morals in Ancient Greece and Rome, p 36.

I consulted hundreds of students of mine, asking for their frank opinion. I accosted my colleagues, -scientists and philosophers. I went about the town, gathering information. One truth has been found, as a result: that we, professional philosophers, neither study nor teach problems of real worth and significance to our contemporaries. The ideas, or concepts to be more precise, we are concerned with are largely dead or empty.
-- PROF. RALPH B. WINN, College of The City of New York.

You will deny what your own eyes have read?

Teen sex orgies.

See being a teen ager makes you have sex orgies, do you deny what you own eyes have read.


And you wonder why people associate belief in God with a lack of intelligence. I wonder why you wonder? (well I don't really wonder why, please don't pick up on that one).


Right, I'm no longer continuing this.

As I thought. It's just going to get far to personal, as I will have to relate things to you, the person who is actually conversing with me and I can their fore ask why they do things and why they believe things etc... and not just make some kind of assumptions about a group of people or dead people or people that claim to be one thing or another or popular opinion which is completely pointless and has nothing to do with anything meaningful except for making history and social science classes more interesting and giving advertisers and politicians somethings for people to rally behind.

I will continue else where if you wish. godgab for instance.

This has nothing to do with intelligence.


You've not actually managed to answer any of my previous questions with any form of clarity or certainty, mealy put a few comments that may or may not be based on any form of reality or truth that other people, of who I neither care nor know much about, have said.

I can go down the pub and post comments which all manner of people say.


So, tell me.

Do you know what intelligence is? How can you claim something has nothing to do with something you don't even know what it is.

You have presented me with no evidence that it has nothing to do with intelligence.

Given that you appear to want me to believe you, would it not be an intelligent thing to present me with some kind of evidence?

So, you could say that basing things on evidence is a sign of intelligence could you not?

You can carry out the experiment with the water and the vessel if you like, and as such I have presented you with evidence. Evidence that is not just hear say, but can be peer reviewed by your very self.

To believe in God is to have faith, faith as you have said should not be sort through evidence (though you appear to have some kind of loose evidence).
So belief in God through faith alone, without evidence is contradictory to intelligence.

I don't find this personal at all. You seem to though. Perhaps you feel it is "tolerance" and "acceptable" to come within a forum, knowing some members are possibly schizophrenic, manic depressed, and post insensitive things such as,



Is that so? Odd, because I've never heard of this so-called diagnosis, except amidst Atheist hovels. It's called bigotry and religious intolerance.

I would appreciate if you would kindly direct me to the manual you're claiming to refer to, which is published and peer reviewed by :
National Mental Health Association
Dedicated to promoting mental health, preventing mental disorders and achieving victory over mental illnesses through advocacy, education, research and ...
http://www.nmha.org

which provides a "label" on people of faith, who feel the "Holy Spirit" guides, teaches them, and leads them in a personal journey of spiritual truth... on faith... and that includes the belief they sometimes receive signs .... please, show me just one Psychiatrist in the United States of America who has breached the Separation of Church and State, and prescribes medications for this elusive "god delusion" diagnosis, you claim exists. Please, tell me what label exists for people of faith... what is this mysterious "diagnosis" you refer to?

If I wasn't the wiser, I'd assume you were making it all up...

No such diagnosis exists.

Last edited by AspieForty on 13 Apr 2010, 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

You feel your Atheist philosophy is under the gun.


No i don't?
Where did you get that idea from?

I have said that you can't say that their Atheism had anything to do with anything, their communism may have.

I too feel that depopulating the planet would be a very good way to solve many of the problems in the world, such as global warming, lack of recourses, pollution and the general destruction of the planet. Though I would favorer birth control and euthanasia over mass murder like the catholics Hitler and Tony Blair do.

Go read Mein Camph (or however you spell it). Hitlers mass murder was directly related to him being Catholic, by his very own words he would have felt like a devil if he didn't fight like Jesus did against the Jews.

You have given me no evidence that killing people, or anything else for that matter is in any way either right or wrong.

As Chucky mentions, ASD and Schizophrenia are now considered entirely different conditions. If you're wondering how professionals can sometimes get confused between Aspergers and Schizophrenia, I think misinterpretation or miscommunication of symptoms & behaviors amy play a part, for instance:

Paranoid delusions - someone with Aspergers who has difficulting interpreting social cues and responding appropriately could eventually come to believe that everyone is out to get them... however, this is markedly different than typical Schizophrenic delusion because a Schiz normally has a specific "They" who are out to get them, not just people in general.

Delusions of reference - I've never heard of an Aspie believing that some unrelated thing is actually related to them... like a Shizophrenic receiving special messages from the TV. Although, since Aspies tend to be pattern matchers by nature, they may pick up on a pattern throughout several TV programs/ads that appear like a message of some sort but it's not specifically directed at them.

Hallucinations - experiencing things that others do not has a very different meaning for Aspergers -- many of us are very sensitive to sound, light, vibration, etc so the sensation/stimulus does actually exist in the environment even if other people aren't sensitive enough to pick them up (like a flickering light or a background noise above or below normal human range or a very faint smell). A Schizophrenic's brain is manufacturing a sensation that is not actually occuring in the environment and it can not be traced to something or detected by any measuring devices.

Disordered speech - an Aspie may often talk to themselves as they work out ideas, but that communication is still ordered and logical. Even if the observer isn't aware of the topic they can usually follow the conversation and it's obvious the person is having a complete conversation with themselves. However Schizophrenics tend to speak random words or disconnected jumbles and can appear to be talking to random entities that may or may not be present.

So, as you can see, what appears to be a symptom of one condition, when viewed with more care and matched with other symptoms can easily be seen as a symptom of another condition and exclude the first condition. Since Aspies can have problems understanding spoken questions, can have difficulty determining what a doctor is asking when a question is vague, and often have difficulties clearly communicating their thoughts and feelings you can see how a misdiagnosis could occur... even if they weren't intentionally being dishonest with their doctor.

By the way I was diagnoses with schizophrenia, still am.


I have many very good friends who also have the condition.

I've been trying to get my diagnosis looked at for approximately two years now, my family are now paying for me to go private.

I can post some of the things I've collected from people who knew me as a child. I've come on here because if I do have asperger's, from what I've read I'm even a bit odd for that. But if I've learn one thing it's not to believe anything that comes out of psychiatry or at least take it with a huge pinch of salt and instead talk to people who actually do have some real life experience and see how it adds up.

My best friend is also very 'spiritual' as are many of my friends.

So I am in no way bigoted.

As I said, I treat everyone with indifference.

So long as your happy I'm happy, I just thought others may not see it that way. You for-instance mentioned something about being bigoted.

Believe what you like, I would rather you believed the truth and that people didn't spread falsehood masquerading as the truth.

As I said earlier, to which you did not disagree. How else can you determine reality if it is not through determining the truth.

Recently I acquainted a nice lady on Youtube, whom has a channel dedicated to victims of incest / child molestation and she herself observed that many Atheists, like their Theist counterparts, well... like the old saying goes: "Once a fundy, always a fundy."

Toni (YellowPianoGirl on Youtube) is an Agnostic, but shares my disdain with fanatics, she stated :

"Religion itself has little to do with worshiping an entity. To me a religion is a group of people with a single cause who work to convert others to their cause and think they are the only ones who are right. I've seen Atheists as well as Christians, et cetera, who fit this bill. Just a thought." - YellowPianoGirl, Toni Lynn

Good night.

It's been delightful and thought-provoking conversation. I hope we can do it again some time.

" victims of incest / child molestation"

that's not helpful.

I've spoken to many many people who had intimate contact with older people when they were juvenile and they've all unanimously said they did have any problem with it or any kind of troubles or things you would associate with a victim until other people started telling them they were victims and something terrible had happened to them.

They became victims when they were treated as victims, before that they were happily getting on with their lives.

There are of-course other forms of 'abuse', which can also include intimate contact where the juvenile feels ill-treated without outside influence telling them such.