hi everyone

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Hi there, I'm new here.

I stumbled upon this forum as I've been wondering for a while whether or not I have AS. I'm an only child and was classified as "gifted" as a child (I'm 30 now) and I think all my weirdness was just chalked up to that. I'm interested to hear from anyone who knows anything about how gifted and AS characteristics cross over and what it looks like if you are both. I'm hesitant to seek out a diagnosis as I'm not sure what benefit it would give me except that if diagnosed I'd like to speak/write on the topic. I worry that a diagnosis would interfere with my relationships and work life. I have researched ASD quite a bit (more of my research has been in classic autism though which I don't fit) , which makes me wonder if I've convinced myself? I'm female so I know it presents differently. Please give your opinions if you don't mind...

- When I was a child I definitely had obsessive interests. Now I am mainly fixated on my work.
- My parents were told I had an IQ in the 99th percentile as a child but had a great deal of difficulty learning to tie my shoes, to hold a pencil (I still don't hold it properly and writing is uncomfortable), learning timestables, and I still have trouble telling time on analog clocks.
- My reading skills were highly advanced as a child but my comprehension was always high too which I don't think fits.
- I've had "meltdowns" since I was a teenager and very occasionally shut down completely if under high stress
- Little changes bother me (e.g. I hate if someone sits in the seat I'm used to sitting in). Big changes cause me meltdowns if I don't excuse myself and take a break from other people
- I had friendships in elementary school - I do remember some being based on special interests or with younger children where I could control play but I also think some of them were fairly typical too. However when I started grade six at a new skill I remember several years of wondering around trying to figure out what everyone knew that I didn't and basically being left out for the most part.
- I sometimes say inappropriate things and don't realize it until afterwards
- I have terrible auditory processing and memory and often have to write things down or ask people to repeat themselves, but I have exceptional memory for anything I read
- I'm terribly clumsy, sometimes walk into things (bump my hip on a table, not actually straight into things), and could never get the hang of any sport
- While I get it intellectually I still have trouble understanding that other people don't know the same things that I know and vice versa - also if something bad happens to someone I know I have to actually think about how I would feel in the situation before I can feel anything for them.
- I have good relationships with others 1:1 but still struggle with these same people if in large groups which causes me to be irritable - I can't figure out how to appropriately join the conversation. It's exhausting.
- I sometimes don't get sarcasm although I can use it effectively - sometimes I can't tell if people are joking or serious
- I think that I stumble on my words and sometimes can't express myself properly verbally but no one has ever confirmed this (but I've never asked..?)
- Since I was a teen I rehearse and rehash social interactions extensively... to help me understand them I think? When I was a child I would do this in the third person
- I have tons of stims but they are all very subtle
- I talk to myself out loud when stressed
- I have high anxiety
- I have an aversion to being touched unless I am the one to initiate it - but I can tolerate it, except being bumped in crowds which I can't handle
- I've been told I had poor eye contact as a child but I don't remember. Now I find it pretty much impossible with strangers or acquaintances...it isn't painful, I just can't do it.
- I interrupt without meaning to and can't tell for the life of me when it's my turn to talk on the phone
- I hate it when people touch my belongings without asking
- I have a great deal of difficulty with organization (work. school, maintaining my home) and can only function with tons of lists - I keep documents saved on my computer whenever I can as I can't manage paper
- I will watch the same TV show, listen to a song, or play a computer game very repetitively


I'm sure there is more, I just can't think of it off the top of my head. I am married, have purchased a home, pay my bills, and have a fairly successful career. I have good relationships with my friends and family though I have few close friends rather than a large group. I'm not sure as to the significance these things have on my life except I am nearly always stressed/anxious and the things I find stressful are things most people I talk to don't find very stressful. There has been one point in my life when I basically stopped functioning but that was 6 or 7 years ago and I have kept things going fine since then.

Any thoughts would be great I'd really like to know if I have AS but as I mentioned hesitate to go for a formal diagnosis.

Thanks

Welcome to WP!

Thank-you:-)

Nice to see you here! Sounds like you have a lot of the characteristics. Music especially gets to me and when I hear a new song, I have to play it on about 700 times before it "leaves me alone" if that makes sense (probably it does). My latest is "por ti volare" from Step Brothers (CURSE YOU Will Ferrell!)

Don't worry about humor/sarcasm. We can use it quite effectively even without a grasp of when others are using it on us. Did you know that comedian Dan Akroyd went public with his diagnosis of Asperger's? We can be bitingly funny people. In many ways

The intellectual part you're talking about (others don't know the same things I know) is called Theory of Mind if you want to look that one up. LOTS of us struggle with that (me too)!

Rehashing those old social interactions is a favorite past-time too. I think it is related to the exceptional rote memory that most of us exhibit. I find this part particularly frustrating when something triggers a memory which comes back at a bad time. I also get frustrated in that no matter how hard I try (which is VERY hard) it is still so difficult to successfully navigate social group situations.

My stims are subtle too -- I bite the crap out of my fingers (not the nails, but around them), for example. I've only once experienced a major stimming event of hand flapping after I got home after meeting the mayor of Sapporo, Japan. I was soooooooo stressed out by that.

Funny part about the 'organization' issue -- my desk at work is a total nuclear-level mess, but I know where every license, CD, and random document is.

Overall, remember that the Dark Gift manifests differently in all of us. If things don't precisely "fit" (like your reading comprehension level), don't automatically reject the idea. I (and several others) do not have eye contact issues. For me it is because I have learned the timing of look/look away. Others of us cannot do it at all. The 'rush' of eye contact scrambles their thoughts like a loud rush of static and they cannot maintain concentration or conversation easily.

My main reason for coming here has been to learn how to communicate more effectively with the written word. I still find that I sound offensive sometimes when I don't mean to be and that my tone and format needs a lot of work. Fortunately, this is a very understanding and forgiving group. I am also considering the formal diagnosis route because activism interests me (I'm in the "AS is a difference" camp), but my activities are limited without a Dx.

See ya 'round the forums, friend!

-- Vip

Thanks for your reply! Until the song "leaves me alone"...does that ever make sense! It leaves you alone, not the other way around!

I hate not knowing if someone is joking though, as people sometimes get annoyed if you ask, or worse assume incorrectly. I've been told I take things too seriously, but really it's because I tend to assume people are being serious unless it's really clear and I just can't tell.

I've read about theory of mind...for me it's mainly that I get lost in my thoughts then begin a conversation out loud mid way through, not immediately realizing that the person hasn't heard the beginning of my train of thought! Or I forget that people who are not in my line of work may not be as familiar with a topic as I am. Is that the same thing? Despite this I've been effective at supervising, teaching, and mentoring others in work situations.

I think when I was younger I was so motivated to "fit in" that I was better at it, as I get older I'm less motivated to be a people pleaser. I can do it but it's tiring, I have to play the game to work with others but get frustrated when it's a purely social context.

I bite the skin around my fingernails too! This one is the most obvious and distasteful to other people, otherwise I just rub my thumb on the palm of my hand, tap on my arm or leg, shake my foot, etc, and some visual things with patterns.

I lose paper but I can always remember what was on it, I can recall things I've read as though it's in front of me...I've managed to compensate for what I think are executive function problems for the most part.

I can't really explain the eye contact thing - if I'm not comfortable, I literally can't do it. I only noticed this recently though...once I realized it I started trying to do it and still can't. You're right, everyone is unique, I only worry that once you start to suspect you only look for confirming evidence..

Other characteristics that come to mind...face blindness and I hate using other people's names (not sure if this fits?)...I make up nicknames for people I am close to. The combination of lack of eye contact and not using names is completely confusing for people!

I think you communicate quite well in writing, judging by your post! I would only pursue a diagnosis so I could write about my experience, and like you consider these differences just that, and not a disorder per se. Since it is a spectrum, what is your opinion on autism when it significantly impairs communication, self care, independence etc. and results in self-harm? I'm genuinely curious...I work in the school system and have worked with children for whom life cannot be easy... Still forming my own opinion on the subject I guess.

Thanks again for your post, very informative!

On Theory of Mind (ToM): This is sometimes officially characterized as the ability to “put oneself in another’s shoes”, but I think this nutshell definition is a bit too imprecise. I have no problems putting myself in another’s shoes. None whatsoever. The problem is that it’s ME in their shoes when I need to be putting THEM in their shoes, so to speak. Besides the knowledge issue (us assuming they know something we do), it also extends to reactions and emotions. I assume they’ll notice “what I did for them” or won’t be offended by something I’m not offended by. It’s more relevant to say ToM is the ability to understand that others have differing thoughts and motivations, some of which are incomprehensibly alien.

Don’t be too worried about only seeing confirming evidence. Your educational background coupled with the fact that you’re cognizant of this potential should be enough to keep you from snap judgments – as long as you haven’t Dx’d yourself with a whole host of other things . My first degree was a double-major in psychology and mathematics so I have always been acutely aware of this myself.

On autism when it significantly impairs communication, self care, independence etc. and results in self-harm: Och! A live hand grenade! First, I should preface this answer with a bit of stage-setting. To address this, we must venture into the murky waters of the spectrum. Some believe that AS doesn’t exist at all and is merely a form of High Functioning Autism (HFA). Other differentiations are quite granular. Personally, I see autism not so much as a linear spectrum, but as a cone. At the far left (tip of the cone) extreme, there are those who cannot care for themselves and will sit and rock if left to their own devices. This behavior is uniform. At the wider base of the cone on the right are those with just a ‘touch’ of Autism. This manifests itself in wildly different ways. Some get gifts that are artistic (not me, I have trouble making stick-figures look right), others might have a musical talent or near-“photographic” memory. Some get no gifts at all. The uniformity of behavior tends to fall away in these cases, leaving only traces and tendencies that manifest as the symptoms of what we know as AS. Co-morbids can make even those with mild AS need specialized care. Co-morbids are beyond the scope of what I am addressing here.

So, with all that groundwork being laid, I would have to say that those with autism at the tip of the cone are certainly going to need special care. A “cure” or effective therapy for them would be a good thing if it can raise their level of autonomy or prevent self-harm. For those with higher function, I would prefer not to meddle – if they have workarounds for communication (i.e. they can communicate using a computer but not in person) and most importantly if they are happy, then I feel that they are fine as they are.

Back to me: My trouble isn't with written communication per se, but with how I disagree with others. I tend to be too aggressive or I don't think the consequences through thoroughly enough. More like I don't think them through accurately enough. I typically agonize for an hour over any major post when I disagree with someone, but still get the presentation wrong. Since coming here, I feel my work-related communication has improved.

Meh, enough about me; this is your intro after all! If you want to compare more about our stories, the link in my sig will take you to mine

To WrongPlanet!! !

Hi welcome, always best to be sure, take your time , read these threads, ask questions, read and research some more and can do varies tests, some here: http://asplanet.info/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=63

Welcome greetings to the WP community, Lilactiger.

Hi,

Jetlag and richie, thank-you for your welcome and good to meet you!

asplanet, thanks for the welcome and for the resources...I'll definitely have a look. I'm in the middle of one of Tony Attwood's books right now but I find it frustrating that most of what I've come across pertains to children. I look forward to reading more...thanks for your help!

ViperaAspis, wow, I've never thought that ToM fit for me the way it's usually explained but your explanation fits quite well. Though I'm the type of person who will try VERY hard to understand it's always after some intellectualizing rather than just getting it...

I don't make a habit of self diagnosing; the only thing I've ever thought I had is some sort of anxiety disorder, but that may be just tied up with the AS if that's what it is?

With regards to your comments on my "grenade" (sorry, I tend to just ask things straight out and think twice later)...I would be inclined to agree. I like the cone analogy, it suggests that there are many more people with AS than are officially or even self diagnosed which is very likely true. And certainly if people are doing just fine there is no need to meddle with them...which is basically why I hesitate to get a formal diagnosis at all (I'd like to think I'm doing more or less all right ). I've certainly developed ways to work through challenges I have and researching and talking to others seems a good way to help with this.

I looked at your intro, somewhat similar stories. Not only does intelligence result in animosity from other children (which it certainly did for me too, at least when I got into the older grades) but for me at least it has caused me to intellectualize everything which is sort of paralyzing if that makes any sense? I recall spending a lot of time as a child trying to figure out if everyone else saw colour the same way as me (which relates back to ToM I suppose)..I thought perhaps a particular colour looks different to each person but it's consistent, so we can all pick one word and call it the same thing...hmmm maybe that makes some sense and maybe it doesn't? That's just one example but that's mainly what I did in school, that and read (what I wanted to read, not what they wanted me to read). I had terrible attendance in high school, rejected the gifted program after a while, never did homework, aced every test...it wasn't until I mid-way through university that it caught up with me and I had to figure out how to actually do school properly. Many times I think they believed me to be more intelligent than I actually am.

I certainly took on personas too...still do on occasion. I think it can be adaptive I think as long as you spend most of your time as yourself. My memory is like yours too, only when it wants to be though. It's frustrating that I have almost no memory of how anyone might have perceived me as a small child; no idea if I was perceived as odd...looking back I think I would have thought I was odd though It's probably quite telling that I likely paid little attention to how others saw me.

I will need to give all of this a great deal of consideration but for now it's time to begin the long, slow process of actually trying to fall asleep (something else I'm not terribly good at many nights). Perhaps I'll try to set myself up a signature too, but for now, goodnight

Sleep well, new friend! May you reach REM with less than an hour of tossing about in stages 1-4.

<<<Time passes>>

Good morning!

Yes! I can relate to "intellectualizing paralysis". I suspect that is brought on by a related AS trait: many of us experience a form of paralysis when asked questions like "What would you like for dinner tonight?" Our minds become overwhelmed with all the possibilities for dinner that we either answer "I don't know" or "<insert favorite repetitive dinner item here>". We do better when given a direct, concrete choice like "Would you like steak and potatoes or sushi and miso soup?" Maybe you've experienced something similar when dealing with sweeping, open-ended questions?

I did the colour thing too! While I think we must see similar primary colors, I still wonder if we all see the exact same hue.

I think that, overall, the best thing about AS is that it led me to a community of people who are "like me". VERY like me. I'm not alone anymore (and completely baffled about my life). I have a people and a culture now. And I'm glad you're a part of it too!

Oh, and here's that missing 'balancing bracket' you were just looking for a bit earlier in this post: >

Mwahahaha

Thank-you! I did sleep well. Hope you did as well:-)

Yes, choices are difficult. I find it nearly impossible to make a snap decision and continue to agonize even after a decision is made. Unfortunately the default response is to do nothing, so I often have to force myself to take action on important decisions even when it is difficult. As far as minor decisions go such as what's for dinner or where to go on a particular evening, I'd much rather someone else choose instead.

I cannot believe someone else actually thought the same thing about colours! I'm fascinated by perception in general, and how it may differ from person to person. Actually, I think it could be radically different for each person, as long as we each see it consistently the same way each time we can put a label on it. I've explained this to people before and no one else seems to understand it..

I am finding it fascinating that many people here have similar thought processes and experiences. I'm not used to finding that. It's good to know you as well, and nice to be in a friendly place! Thanks for the bracket; I do like things to be symmetrical

33 on the test...

Oh, similar. 31. Hey, you BEAT me! Gosh dang it... I'm going to go hit the milk and re-take

What's the threshold? And how reliable is this test? The questions seem rather obvious if you know anything about the subject..

About the questions seeming obvious: Yes, that's very true. I had to force myself to hyper-evaluate every answer once I "got it" as far as what they were looking for. You obviously know what I mean. So when I caught on, I tried to be really, really sure that I was being objectively honest (as much as possible) about the remaining answers.

Threshold is a bit vague for this test in that it is not expressed as "have" or "have not". It states that the average score in the control group was 16.4. Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher. Meaning below 32 is not a disqualifier and above 32 is not ultra-abnormal. Use the test as a guideline or an additional indicator, but not a determinant. That can only come with time and observation.

As far as reliability goes, most here that have taken the test and publicly disclosed the results fall right around or higher than 32. A few are much higher. There are additional threads on this board regarding various tests and test scores that you'll see around the forums.