Hello

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I've lurked around for a while, figured I'd sign up.

I'm actually not sure if I even have Asperger's as I've never been diagnosed, I can relate to a lot of the topics/posts I've read though. I've been a bit different ever since around the age of 12, I got extremely unsocial and just kept all of my thoughts/words in my head rather then vocalizing them. It happened around the same time puberty kicked in, not sure it's connected or not. I grew to be less empathetic, and felt as if I had to act or put on a show in social situations because I just couldn't connect naturally. My mother had just assumed I was a shy guy and thought I'd just grow out of it, well I'm 23 now and not much has changed.

The disconnection I feel towards people and reality has really started to take it's toll. Now that I'm a bit older it's hard to find a job and just get out into the world. I've never been in a relationship, and just feel like I lack so much experience. I'm always escaping into my own world and I guess I'm a bit content with that, and if I could I'd really careless. People just make me feel guilty I guess, like I'm expected to be a certain way. I don't know.

Anyway, my name is Isaac, and I look forward to reading more and maybe even post. =]

Last edited by Reverie on 01 May 2010, 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hi

Hi Isaac, I think you're confusing "empathy" with the socialization skills. If you lacked "empathy" you would feel no guilt. An aspergers person should be very rich in human emotions... though they lack the skills to verbalize it or express it appropriately.

Aspergers lack social skills... they were never born with them.
A biggy to look for is if you have problem with eye contact.

However "Empathy" is a completely un-related term to social skills. Wiki states "Empathy, which literally translates as in feeling, is the capability to share another being's emotions and feelings."

That is, I have deeply rooted human empathy... and I would not be so brazen as to take another person's life, namely because I CAN envision in myself, the evil and brutalization of another person's feelings, fears... namely because I have those feelings myself. Human empathy guides our moral standards, on how we treat each other as human beings.

There are unpardonable myths spreading on the internet that Aspergers people "lack empathy" -- that is the same as saying Aspergers people are comparable to sociopaths like Ted Bundy who took human life without remorse... Bundy genuinely (clinically in psychiatric terms) "lacked human empathy". He was very keen on socialization skills, but when it came to taking the lives of other human beings -- he did not flinch. Sure he knew it was wrong, all sociopaths know its wrong, but they willingly choose to do what's wrong... and something is missing in their reasoning -- there's no restraints, in other words, NO HUMAN EMPATHY.

This is not true of Aspergers. It is a leading myth... and it is a very cruel myth.

My only guess is some are confusing "empathy" with "socialization skills". Totally different things.

Wiki states: "Empathy is an ability dealing with emotions with many different definitions. They cover a broad spectrum, ranging from feeling a concern for other people that creates a desire to help them, experiencing emotions that match another person's emotions, using or removing painful emotions from another using only the psyche and emotional energy, knowing what the other person is thinking or feeling, to blurring the line between self and other.[5] Below is a list of various definitions of what empathy means:"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

Most Aspies have been bullied, victimized and treated very bad... they feel very real pain from the way they have been abused, and would not want to do the same to others. In that regard, the majority of Aspergers, are probably richer in human empathy, than the average person.

When I see a soul in need, I try to give. When I see a worthwhile cause I can help... I try. I tend to take the side of the underdog and befriend the friendless... because I've been there, and done that. Human empathy is what motivates me, but I am usually misunderstood due to a deficit in socialization skills.

Welcome to WP

PLEASE study this issue.

This is one of the leading myths Aspergers people are up against.

I wasted 1/2 day sitting in an unqualified examiners office, supposedly to do a diagnosis on Aspergers, and the very reason she told me I was not Aspergers was when I described being upset when people told me I had hurt somebody's feelings, I felt awful. She told me, "What you're describing isn't Aspergers. If you were Aspergers you wouldn't care if you hurt anyone's feelings."

SHE BELIEVED THE EVIL MYTHS ABOUT ASPIES.
She was a Quack,

If you want to understand the definition of "Empathy"... just do some reading on some of the worst criminals in history.... namely, falling under the term "Sociopath". These people lack human empathy, and are on the contrary, very skilled at reading people, and manipulating them.

This MYTH must be corrected once and for all. It is leading to people not receiving diagnosis, misdiagnosis... or simply, inaccurate and cruel stereotypes of what Aspergers is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath
Psychopathy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Sociopath)
Psychopathy (pronounced /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a personality disorder characterized by an abnormal lack of empathy combined with strongly amoral conduct, masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal. Neither psychopathy, nor the similar concept of sociopathy, are nowadays defined in international diagnostic manuals, which instead describe a category of antisocial/dissocial personality disorder. However, researcher Robert Hare, whose Hare Psychopathy Checklist is widely used, describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators"[3] as does R.I. Simon.[4][verification needed] Elsewhere Hare and others write that psychopaths "use charisma, manipulation, intimidation, sexual intercourse and violence"[5][6][7][verification needed] to control others and to satisfy their own needs. Hare states that: "Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse".[8] He previously stated that: "What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony"[9]

Here's a useful checklist to see how "Empathy" is defined in its true context. It is "/" with CALLOUS. In other words, if you stole 50,000 from a widow and it put her out on the street... a person truly "lacking in empathy" would feel no guilt, no remorse, no "empathy" with the suffering of another human being.

Aspies tend to be VERY empathetic, and by the rules people. They tend to be polite in that regard, and more likely to be the victim of crime (preyed on) than entanglements with law enforcement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath
Factor 1
Aggressive narcissism
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Factor 2
Socially deviant lifestyle
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Lack of realistic, long-term goals
Impulsiveness
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavioral problems
Revocation of conditional release
Traits not correlated with either factor
Many short-term marital relationships
Criminal versatility

Hi AspieForty, thanks for pointing that out! You're right, it probably comes down to lack of socialization skills rather then being empathetic. I guess the reason I used that word was because I find it so hard to connect with people when their being emotional around me. It's hard to comfort them in such situations. Wrong word usage I guess, considering I can be pretty emotional myself. I just can't really seem to express them.

I struggled with that my entire life. Like, when somebody dies... that isn't that close to me, but people I know are having it hard. I just don't know what to say or do... I feel awful, just because I'm not really feeling what I _guess here_ I should, and do the best I can to say and act like what I think might make them feel better. Does that make any sense?
I have empathy... deeply (I mean, take a look at the fuss I'm making over the issue... I end up feeling guilty -- and the sooner I can exit out of that tense, uncertain social situation... the more comfortable I feel. When loved ones that were close to me died, I tended to grieve alone... I discussed very little, if at all. I didn't go looking for "sympathy". I'm just not good at socialization skills / cues)... inside I feel it, sorrow for them, but I'm not sure how to express that. I mean, really I feel terrible and all.. but its locked inside, where I can't communicate or verbalize it well, if at all.

It probably makes bystanders feel I'm being "rude" "insensitive" or "uncaring" because they don't see an outpouring of emotion and sympathy... they see only that I was quiet, "cold" (on the surface) and eager to make an exit. They don't understand my thought processes at all.



Its a dangerous word usage, -- if you say it -- its excusable, but when MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS don't even understand what the definition of "Empathy" is... we're all in trouble.

If I looked out and saw my neighbor's home on fire... because I have "empathy" and can put myself in their situation: What if it was my house? Yes, I care very deeply for their interests, as much as my own. I would call 911.. I would go into their yard and begin calling for them ... trying to help see if anyone is in there, or can be helped. I have human empathy.

A person who lacks human empathy, would be the kind of person who would have set the house on fire... or set back and watch it burn for kicks...

because people have misunderstood the simple definition of "Empathy" (widespread ignorance) -- you at least recognize you have the ability to "feel guilt" therefore you have human empathy, but DOCTORS are failing to know the definition, and it is leading to misdiagnosis of Aspergers people and failing to diagnose Aspergers people, or the cruel, unforgiving stygma... classifying people who are diagnosed Aspergers, as "criminal psychopaths and sociopaths" (which is the opposite of what an Aspergers person is like).

Pretty much sums up why this MYTH ABOUT EMPATHY must be stopped if we want to be treated better by the population. The word "lacking empathy" implies "Sociopath" by its very definition. But inability to respond to somebody's tears... because you don't know how, doesn't mean you don't relate... doesn't mean you lack empathy... it just means you have a deficit in "communication skills, body language and socialization skills."

True Aspergers people have a conscience and human empathy. Couldn't help but to, with the way we've been bullied around and preyed upon. Autistic people are often the victims of crime, not the perpetrator. They lack the ability to read and process body language (cues) ... and respond appropriately. That doesn't make us psychopaths. We feel terrible that we hurt people's feelings sometimes... we don't intend to be like that.

I've read some of the Aspie guys on this forum... one was telling about his wife crying, and he stands there, not knowing what to say or do... but by simply acknowledging he was discussing it, you know he feels absolutely terrible.

A person lacking in empathy would not only be the cause of her pouring tears, but just wouldn't give a **** ... in fact, most people who lack a human conscience (empathy) take pleasure in sadism and hurting others.

We Aspies met have had entanglements with people who lack empathy, and often. Back in school... they were called BULLIES. Then we grew up and they are known to us as PREDATORS.

Hello Isaac, welcome, enjoy your stay on the Wrong Planet!

Welcome to WrongPlanet, and welcome to my time warp.

Welcome aboard the Wrong Planet, Isaac.

Also... I hope I didn't come off as too BLAB and passionate and forceful with more than one post. It was not personally aimed at you, I am annoyed with medical professionals... not you. Aspies can overwhelm a person like that (oh social tact, where are you???)

I apologize if I seemed perhaps "rude" with my response.
It's old news. You can Google up "Aspergers + Empathy" on the web, and you'll find pages on this subject. Some are focusing on the myth that Aspergers lack "empathy". Others (mistakingly) are saying that Aspies lack empathy (mainly because the authors have no understanding of the definition of "empathy" and even less of an understanding of what Aspergers is). Some mistake it as a lack of human emotion(as you pointed out you are very emotional sometimes), and others presume Autism is a "one size fits all"(TM) condition, when its a spectrum ranging from low-functioning to high functioning. Aspergers is categorized within the High Functioning autistic spectrum (as you are probably already aware).

I hope one day people are made aware of what Autism is, and we are understood and accepted in society.

Warmest welcome, and please don't feel that I tried to overwhelm you with my responses.

To WrongPlanet!! !

Thanks for the welcome, everyone!

Not at all, I appreciate your knowledge and information on the subject! One reason I haven't gone to get myself diagnosed is fear of said medical professionals either misdiagnosing me or making assumptions that aren't true.

I'll continue to look into Asperger's and read more of the forum in order to learn.

Thanks again, everyone.

Welcome to WP!