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Hi,

I am from Australia. I became aware of the possibility that I may have Asperger's back in September/October while I was doing research on Autism and Asperger's for the organisation I had my final placement at (I was finishing off my Master of Social Work degree - Graduated on December 16th!). I pursued a diagnosis and received confirmation that I have Asperger's on November 15th. I knew that receiving a diagnosis as a female would be harder, as women are often misdiagnosed (e.g. borderline personality disorder) or considered to have 'residual' Asperger's due to their coping strategies. For this reason I chose someone who had experience with females on the spectrum.

Trauma had to be considered during my assessment process because I have experienced issues of complex trauma throughout my life. For instance, I grew up in a family with family violence, my father had various addiction issues, my father passed away from a drug overdose when I was 10, my mother was highly critical (and had her own issues of unresolved trauma), I took on adult responsibilities at various times (role-reversal), I had inadequate support systems (family and social), I was bullied and ostracized throughout primary and secondary schooling by both teachers and students, and I finally had a breakdown at 19. So, I had issues with self-identity, anxiety, depression and trauma. I spent my early twenties resolving all of those issues (on my own). I reconstructed my thought processes (I unlearned everything I 'believed' or was 'taught' to be 'true'), I learned how to emotionally self-regulate, and developed self-esteem. I have worked toward greater self-acceptance.

Nevertheless, I still find that I have issues with social cues and I have been doing my best to learn those intellectually in order to interact and get on with NTs. So, I have done immense amounts of reading on communication skills and NT relationships to fill the gaps in my knowledge-base. Reading about relationships and attraction was interesting because it made me realise how many social cues I had missed. And how some of my behaviours might have been misinterpreted as flirtation when I was just trying to be friendly (I like all people, although I sometimes become frustrated with their problem behaviours). So, knowing all this is important for safety. I don't know about all of you, but my experience has been that the 'primal' part of the brain is non-existent, so things like flirtation have to be learned intellectually. This doesn't mean that I have gained an interest in modelling these types of behaviours to be more like a NT, instead it allows me to notice when it is aroused in others and take action according to that knowledge.

Finally, I can say that I still experience over-sensory issues and I experience social exhaustion (so, awareness and management has been key). I also still think in an Asperger's way!


I am happy to have found and be part of this community.


Cheers,

congratulations on your masters. welcome to WP.

Welcome

Welcome! I hope you enjoy your stay here!

Welcome to Wrong Planet!

Thanks!

Speaking as someone who until recently had to recover from Asperger's, obsessive-compulsive disorder, extensive trauma, and subthreshold bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder on my own, let me applaud you for everything you've learned.

It takes a really strong person to do that.

I hope your doctor will be able to help you as you navigate this.

Thank you! And I applaud you for recovering from your own issues - awesome stuff!

welcome

Sare,

You & I joined here just a few days-apart, began researching at approx. the same time, are approx the same age (as I recall - from looking at your profile awhile bk), and I once studied social work for awhile (and also have a grad. degree [in something else, tho' - an education field.]). It's nice to hear about other adults who've had a long road/journey to this point. I'm sorry for your difficulties growing-up (which you listed). I completely relate to your several sentences about relationships and misunderstanding others' intentions and cues, and their problems. It's so strange and exciting that, suddenly, regarding my difficulties in past interactions and my difficulties with slower processing, and regarding my unique behaviors & interests, I finally have some answers!
I'd like to recommend a video to you (which was recommended to me [a few days-ago, on 'chat', here). I's on Youtube and it's called "The Aspergers 'Sensory Funnel'" by 'AspergerExperts'.

(Sorry - i don't know how to 'link' directly to it.)

Anyway, thanks for "opening-up"/sharing some personal things and for making a few, short comments on some of my, previous posts. I'm doin' alright

See ya, 'round.

Thank you. I agree with you, it is good to hear from other adults. Thanks for the Youtube clip. I watched it and found myself in agreement with what was said. The main issue is learning how to manage sensory issues. As I said to someone earlier (off-site), how are you meant to develop properly when you're bombarded with sensory overload from a very young age? And nobody can provide you with a proper frame-work for coping because they have no frame of reference themselves? When you're stressed your ability to empathise with others gets switched off because of the stress-response (survival-mode/self-focus mode). I found a lot of similarities between those on the spectrum and those that have gone through trauma (they too become stuck in survival/self-focus mode, and have stress-responses that become easily aroused) and develop a lot of maladaptive coping and defense strategies. Strategies that might be judged harshly by others, but does have a purpose or benefit to the one making use of them. Take stimming for example, they are self-soothing strategies usually frowned upon by NTs. When no 'healthy' alternative to release the stress is provided to the child they then turn to more maladaptive ways of coping/behaving. Youth tend to lean toward self-harm and drugs. So, it is important to develop a coping strategy (stress-release) tool kit (e.g. exercise, writing, listening to music, meditation.. etc.)

In fact, newer research on autism and research on women on the spectrum state that the problem is not a lack of empathy, but over-empathy. If you look at the characteristics of women with Asperger's one of the key traits is feeling other peoples emotions and the emotions in the environment (this is called affective empathy). This has been my experience, I have often been able to pick up the negative emotions in others and when I was younger I took it on as my own. Eye contact made things worse. How are you supposed to be comfortable around others if you can feel their pain (internal issues) and are not taught how to detach from it? If you're being bombarded with this type of stimulus with no ability to manage it, what do you think the automatic response to that stress will be? Avoidance/withdrawal/numbing - then you become stuck in that pattern because of conditioning and fear (although you may not recall the reason for these stress-responses if they established at a very young age). You then go on to develop anxiety issues, depression, low self-esteem, personality disorders (in an attempt to 'fit' in), OCD, and other such stuff. People not on the spectrum who develop similar things tend to have emotional over-sensitivity.

I agree with the clip when it says that because of over-sensory issues social development is delayed (or stalled). However, I personally believe that we would still 'think' differently even if over-sensory issues were managed at an earlier age, quite like individuals labelled as gifted. Gifted individuals have over-sensory/over-excitability/over-sensitivity issues, but not to the extent of those on the spectrum. Because even after working through all my issues and trauma there are still things that are not 'innate' (e.g. desire to be manipulative, hierarchies, gender and age differences, herd-mentality, and other such stuff). As I said in my introductory post I had to unlearn a lot of things I was told was 'right' - I detached myself from all the 'rules'. Oh, I can choose to abide by social rules and societies rules, but I am not ruled by them (stuck in rigidity (caused by anxiety) or black & white thinking). I also learned how to process my fear and trauma, and developed assertiveness and boundaries (safety measures - to ensure that NTs aren't able to take advantage of my innately open and caring nature because NTs can be quite selfish/self-serving).

Types of over-excitabilities everyone can have (gifted individuals have a couple more than most and I think people on the spectrum have all): Psychomotor, Sensual, Emotional, Intellectual, and Imaginational.
http://giftedunschooling.blogspot.com.a ... s-and.html
http://www.sengifted.org/archives/artic ... the-gifted


See you around too

Sare,

I have now read your words and links - at least twice, each.

You obviously know more about all-this than I do, which is good for me:), because now I can maybe learn a bit more about who I am. As I read those articles, I was tryin' to classify/diagnose myself - which, I realize, is NOT a good idea, but still, the info gives me some power of knowledge as I try to match new, scientific diagnoses with what I know about myself, so thank u for sharing that wealth of scientific information. I wish I had some good info to share back.

I feel ill-equipped to begin discussing those articles with you here, but let me just say I found interesting the info concerning over-excitability (OE) and "gifted" vs NTs vs "the spectrum". Although I was once placed in a "gifted" classroom (for an extremely short amount of time) and, also, selected to learn 4th grade in a 5th grade classroom, I know (full-well) that I am not "gifted" - or, at least, if I am, it's only in maybe one or two, rather trivial, disciplines (or skills).

A side-note: I regularly play chess with a close friend who almost always beats me. Now, HE is truly gifted - so I know what "gifted" is! Haha! (He has never had many friends or, if he has, he can't handle their lack of intelligence and usually cuts-off the friendship. However, he enjoys teaching young people and has 20 guitar students - myself included.) When he was in high school (35 yrs-ago), the public-school standardized testing company once sent a representative to inquire about him - "...this boy who scored in the 99% percentile" on their test. They met and asked him to take a special, "gifted" sub-test, but he declined (since he cared much more about music than college). He fits (imho) the "intellectual overexcitability" and "imaginational OE" profiles described in your links. (He may fit-into other OE categories too, but I don't think he's on "the spectrum" - not overall, anyway.)

Chess is the perfect game because just one, casual, lazy, rushed error will affect everything else, resulting in a loss. Interestingly, once my gifted friend sees that he's made a critical chess error (which is extremely rare), he, knowing he is intellectually superior (to myself), turns sour and then delights (with laughter) in quickly calling-out better, faster ways for me to end the game (beat him). So, it's like, "Yeah! You beat me...but I'm, still, way-smarter!" (Then MY mood turns sour! Ha!) But then, two weeks later, because we crave the intellectual stimulation, we'll do it all-over, again!! !

Myself, I think that, possibly (based on what I read in your links), I may be best described as being placed within in the OE areas of psychomoter, sensual and imaginative. (At least, I THINK that's what they were called, if memory serves. Another side note: I've displayed the ability to recall long "strings" of numbers, yet, my memory is, overall, "average" - at best - and "below average" in sequential recall.). I have several neuroscience books on "memory" and it's a very complicated subject.

Well, I could write more now, but... eh...this is a start.
We all have our, own, unique gifts and deficiencies. What's so..."interesting" about "the spectrum", it seems, is that folks on "the spectrum" can have have both gifts and deficiencies - all rolled-into-one -- the same person! That's how I feel about myself and, I think also, how the author of that article (you sent) feels about her child.

Thank you, again.

(Please forgive all my typing&grammar errors [here]. As you know, general, intellectual "organization" [such as what is displayed in writing] can be a "deficiency" in ppl such as myself - well, at least, I THINK I'm on "the spectrum". [??] [I'm new to "the spectrum" and, so, haven't sought a diagnosis. Due to potential embarrassment during the diagnostic process and not knowing what the effects/results would be, I doubt I will.] "The spectrum", for me, is like the glue that fills-in many of the gaps of my past/answers many of my major questions, so I'm, already, so much happier...and I hope that, as you wade through all my grammatical errors [here], you can, still, sense that I feel I need to learn more about myself and "the spectrum". Your articles and opinions have given me - and everyone here [who's read them] - some good info. to consider, so thanks so much!)

Like me, it sounds like writing regularly may help you to "de-compress" and "organize" your life. Writing sure is MY comfort.

Nice chatting with you

(This site holds many, great new-friends to be found!)

It is awesome to hear that you benefited in some way from my post - so, thank you!

Yea, I have been trying to figure out and fix myself for a long time (I've asked a lot of questions). I found no help when seeking professional help, professionals would only ever look at the presenting issues. So, I was often left feeling misunderstood. Individuals on the spectrum can fall under the twice-exceptional category (gifted with a learning disability).

2E:-
http://www.mermaidsandmermen.com.au/twi ... ptional-2/
http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/nrcgt/newsl ... ng984.html
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/twice_exceptional.htm

haha, your friend sounds quite delightful. And so do your games of chess.

Personally, I do not consider labels as overly important, instead I place greater focus on self-understanding. Knowing that I have Asperger's has allowed me to accept my limitations and identify my areas of growth. It has led to greater self-acceptance. I do not care too much about what other people think because their assumptions can be wrong (so, it's not something that I take personally). For instance, when I missed a social cue a few weeks back I was mislabeled as 'embarrassed' because of my lack of response (and blank look). I did not feel embarrassed, so I honored my feelings and assertively told the person that embarrassment was not the feeling I was experiencing in that moment (no need for any explanations/justifications). Or that time when I had nothing on my mind and someone mistakenly thought that I was deep in thought. So, when I said nothing was on my mind they didn't believe me. I have actually had a few experiences where the other person has insisted that I 'must' be feeling a certain way because they didn't want to accept they were wrong. So, you can't be too attached to what other people 'think'.

NTs do not always get things right (in terms of empathy), in fact they can really suck at cognitive empathy (they project their insecurities onto you or jump to the wrong conclusions). You can't always put yourself in another persons shoes or 'imagine' (accurately) what it would be like to be them because things aren't always so simple. One mistake I have made in the past was when I have questioned or doubted myself because of the other persons (sometimes contradictory) response.

Also, not everyone practices empathy - they actually engage in 'sympathy'. Those on the spectrum do not tend to feel 'sorry' for others (they can feel compassion, guilt and other things though). The types of empathy that exist include cognitive, affective and somatic.

Yup, writing is often therapeutic.

It's been nice talking to you too!

Hi, Sare,

I appreciate you. I appreciate your information and your experiences. I appreciate your help in pointing me to some new information. (Wait. I already said that. [Sorry.]) I don't have much to say now, except I just finished looking-up the types of empathy...and I also looked-up various opinions as to how many different types of AS might exist. I still need to click on your web-links, but I've reviewed your words several times. I especially like your notion of "always honoring/respecting your own feelings and expressions", even when no one else understands. NT's, as you said, may not understand "how we are" (how we feel, how we think) and that can be frustrating. After we speak, like if we say too much, they may "roll their eyes" to others when they think we aren't looking. Are they not capable of the deep-thinking we are? Do they just not care? Either way, we must honor our own feelings and expression, and we should be respected.

Thank you(!), and I will soon take a look at your links.

Although not much in substance, I wanted to say, at least, this much.



Continue in your strength, and I will in mine.

-W.F.U.

Welcome

Another female Aussie here. I read your story; you express yourself rather well. I related with much to what you've said.

I definitely understand what you mean by not having a 'primal brain'. I too learned that I may have come across as flirtatious, without meaning too, and didn't even realise when guys were pursuing me. In fact, the only reason I ever started dating, was because I was in my early twenties, and people were starting to ask questions, like why I didn't have a boyfriend. I didn't know the answer, so I thought maybe it was something I had to work at. For me, it was always more experimental, and for educational purposes, that I started dating, but have learned to access more parts of my brain now, because of this. It's also taught me much about human behaviour. I never thought something as simple as dating, could teach me so much.

Anyway, happy to talk more if you ever want to. While I've never made a career out of it, I do have quite an interest in psychology, and learning more about Aspergers, and other conditions. You can say it's my latest obsession.

No worries. Awesome! I hope you find those links informative.

Generally, I think that NTs have less tolerance. Over the years I found myself developing intolerance toward NTs because of certain behaviours which conflicted with who I am as a person (value conflicts), but I’ve worked through those frustrations. Retrospectively, I found that I simply cared too much about what other people thought (I put their discomforts before my own well-being). I would over-analyse situations in an attempt to get things perfect. And not upset others. There is no perfect. I also tried to do things ‘correctly’ by following the ‘rules’ that I was taught were 'correct' growing up. I see now that a lot of those rules are outdated and incorrect. Some of the beliefs I adopted as my own were taught to me by social manipulators, so I got rid of those limiting beliefs.

I spoke with my close-friend recently about social hierarchies at school (Queen bees and wannabees). She was able to give me her NT perspective. She confirmed what I had read about how girls develop social confidence in high-school. Typically those at the top do not bother with those at the bottom, however, those in the middle will pick on those at the bottom to develop social confidence - in an attempt to climb up the social ladder. I was often picked on because people saw me as someone who was 'vulnerable'. This did not necessarily mean that I was a weak person, it just meant that others 'viewed' me as being an easy target because I was not part of the 'mainstream', and on some primal level they sensed I was different. Those on the fringe = easy target. These girls were never able to name what the difference was. I still encounter people who are not able to pin-point what is different about me - they just sense something is different. Difference seems to make people uncomfortable/fearful. People tend to do stupid things when they're scared. During high-school I simply did not acknowledge or perceive the social hierarchies. I was clueless about social games. My friend told me that one way to knock these girls back is to bite back, but I never did. She did and they left her alone. I didn't know that was what I had to do and nobody ever told me. I guess they thought I would just 'know'. I suppose I would have saved myself a lot of grief if I had dropped my consideration of others feelings and been okay with causing them pain too (to mirror their lack of consideration of others feelings and their lack of guilt/shame at causing others pain). So, I became ostracized by my peer-group because of my innate 'difference'. In my opinion, NT social games are stupid, but it seems to serve them in some weird way (social-glue). NT do tend to thrive on extrinsic things rather than intrinsic. I continue to read up on social play and games to expand my learning.

Abiding by 'social rules' can be challenging because it is quite black and white - why does this rule apply here and not here? why are NTs so inconsistent? I have observed NTs making up rules as they go along (to suit their needs). So, it is good practice to question their motivations and not believe every word that comes out of their mouth. I found that being a rigid rule follower created a whole lot of stress and maladaptive behaviours. So, caring less about what other people think is important if you wish to be happy and authentic (staying true to yourself). We don't operate by the same rules as NTs (our brains function differently). The NT way of perceiving the world isn't right nor is it wrong, and neither is the spectrum perspective - it's simply different. Society, as a whole, still has issues with difference and diversity. There is a lot of pressure for those on the spectrum to learn to be more 'normal' (whatever that is - there is no 'normal'). It causes an individual a lot of stress if they're not able to live up to those 'expectations'.

I know that I will never fully understand what it is like to be NT and NTs will never really understand what it is like to be on the spectrum. So, how could either one describe the others experience correctly - we can only interpret things based on our own perceptions/understandings (sometimes very inaccurate understandings). There is a lot of bad communication/listening and misunderstandings. A lot of the literature on the spectrum comes from a NT perspective - they impose their view of the world onto ours and judge us as faulty. So, how much of the information in the literature is actually accurate? I know myself best - not others.

In fact, we attempt to function in this world with our innate set of spectrum 'rules' and NT 'rules'. We attempt to be two identities in one body (often divided and not united). So, is it any wonder why a lot of us experience identity crisis, stress/overload, confusion, exhaustion and frustration. I do put in the effort to understand and get on with NTs (they do outnumber us). NTs, on the other hand, do not put in the same amount of effort to understand those that are different to them.

In this present world, we are square pegs being made to fit into round holes.

Hart, thanks. Yes, flirting does seem like experimentation and it is educational. And thank you for your offer regarding further discussion. I may take you up on that offer one of these days