Everything falls into place

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I'm a 62 year old married man and I'm neurotypical. I'm fully socially functional, I'm empathic, I easily form relationships, I'm popular, regarded as good company and have a keen sense of humour. I tend to play a central role in social situations and people who know me tend to trust me and confide in me and I can and do engage with them on an emotional level. I like people, I enjoy interacting with them and people tend to like me.

That's all about me.

My brother, I'll call him Jim, is 2 years younger than me is he is very different than me. We have always been extremely close. We grew up as best friends as well as brothers. But Jim was always a little odd and awkward. He was blunt and direct and could be uncompromisingly stubborn. He never had any time for social niceties or "fitting in" and was often in conflict with our parents.

Well, in conflict with our mother, dad was always laid back, tolerant and understanding.

There were often scenes and rows at home when Jim didn't want to do something or go somewhere and our mother tried to make him. Jim would dig in his heels and no amount of pressure or pushing would make him budge. I used to talk to him afterwards and explain to him that the trouble his attitude caused and the grief it lead to just wasn't worth it. If he had given in and "gone with the flow" his life and everyone else's would be very much better and much more pleasant. I told him he would win a lot by being less uncompromising. But he never accepted that. His stock answer was always "Why should I, I'm right, what mum said I had to do was irrational"

That was always the criteria for Jim. If something wasn't "rational" or "logical" then it was to be rejected and opposed. I used to tell him that, rational or not, if some course of action or way of behaving made life better, then do it. You would win yourself by doing it. But no, Jim dismissed that as "irrational" as well.

One of the earliest experiences of Jims blunt behaviour outside the home that I recall was when he was around 7 or 8. We have been given a 6 pence coin each as spending money one Friday morning. Jim wanted 6 single pence instead, so he went into the school tuck shop to change it. There was a queue. Jim marched straight to the head of the queue, banged the 6 pence coin on the counter and loudly barked at the shopkeeper "Change it." He was surprised and upset when the shopkeeper didn't change his coin but threw him out instead. I talked to him afterwards and told him that what he did was entirely the wrong way to change his coin. I told him he should have joined the queue and when it was his turn, he should have politely and pleadingly asked the shopkeeper if he could please change the coin for him. But he could never agree to that. What the shopkeeper did was "irrational." Jim said his way was right and efficient and should have been complied with. My explanation of the "right" way to do it was also "irrational." That his way didn't get his coin changed, and if he had done it the way I explained to him he would probably have got it changed, didn't seem to have any relevance to the discussion.

I could go on for hours talking about incidents like this, our life is full of them.

Jim is extremely intelligent, way, way above average and was a high performer at school, always top grades. He's always followed intellectual pursuits. He developed an interest in chess when he was about 10 or 11 and bought a portable chess set. He spent every waking hour, from early morning to late evening studying chess and replaying the great games of the grand Masters on his portable chess set. This went on for years until he developed an interest in philosophy. He went to university to study philosophy, but dropped out after 6 months. The lecturers were "stupid" and didn't understand the subject. They were teaching it wrong. And Jim didn't get on with his room mate, either. This last one I can understand. Jims room mate must have been driven bonkers by Jim.

He got a job stacking shelves in a supermarket and studied for and got a doctorate in psychology in his spare time. The only job he's had is stacking shelves in that supermarket.

He's now a pensioner and spends all his time reading thick tomes about philosophy. He is particularly intersted in Wittgenstien.

Jim never got married. He has always been the odd man out who never fitted in with the crowd. He invariably managed to upset people but never understood why. Not only did he not understand why, he didn't care, either. They were being "irrational."

I love my brother. I have a deep relationship with him and when you get to know him he is, underneath it all, a warm and compassionate person. He is very intresting conversation and there is just about no area of human knowledge he is not conversant with. Except for interpersonal relationships and social skills, that is. But after a lifetime knowing him, I'm used to that.

I've not seen Jim for some years now, I'm living in a different country than him, but we email often and talk on the telephone for exactly one hour at exactly the same time on the same day of the week every week. I look forwards to and enjoy those calls.

Jim has never been diagnosed with anything, but since I read about Asperger's Syndrome, everything suddenly fell into place. All the years of Jim's odd behaviour and strange way of relating to the world and people suddenly became clear. And the more I read of it, the more it all fits in. I'm not a doctor and I'm not qualified to make any diagnosis about anyone, but it seems to me that, for all these years, Jim has had Asperger's. I don't think I'll ever talk to him about it, but it explains a lot to me.

Does anybody have anything to say about me and Jim? I'd like to hear if you have.

Kind of a long post, but it's nice to read about how close you two are. Welcome to the forums!

There was always something soothing in stocking shelves. There was order in it. I also found starting plants and setting out the plants in a garden to be soothing, didn't like to weed it so I didn't. Believe it or not the plants still managed to produce good things. It has always seemed a bit stupid to spend such a fuss on weeds.

My mind doesn't seem to always want to work in an orderly manner, but in that disorder there is an order of it's own. I know nothing of Wittgenstien, I'm glad someone does, it could be important. On the other hand, I knew there are Lamoka points at higher elevations then had been known for many years. I didn't write it down first, nor did I care to write it down first.

Your post made me smile, in a very good way. I don't know if he is or isn't either. It is nice when the pieces suddenly seem to fit, isn't it?

nice to meet you.

I am 60 and only recently came to the realization that I probably have aspergers. I have always and still do have problems connecting with people, and conversation and caring about illogical things.

I have not told anyone. Why bother, they would not understand and I would not beable to communicate it very well and it would change nothing.

I know my brothers love me. After reading your post, I wish they understood me and could put 2 and 2 together has you have. Your brother is lucky to have you.

To WrongPlanet!! !

Wonderful post Svenne.

Good that you have come to an understanding after all this time

Welcome.

Kaleido

Nice to meet you, Svenne.

Welcome Svenne!

Welcome to Wrong Planet!

Welcome to the Right Planet that thinks it's Wrong.

I can definitely relate to your story. Like your brother, I went through the same frustrations. I was never diagnosed or even heard about Aspergers till 2 years ago. I was much worse in the past than I am now. It was very frustrating for me not to know why I couldn't be "normal" with friends and family. In my teenage years I was well behaved and tried to be good toward other people then I would throw these huge fits at my parents and sisters over what I would now know wasn't a big deal. I was even hospitalized many times because of a drinking problem.

As I look back, I guess I wasn't really aware of what I was doing to other people. My family would say the same thing, "Do you realized what you've put us through. We were scared for what you did." I guess the emotion didn't register and all I could think of was, they hate me, they see me as weird, they think I'm boring. I didn't realize that the problem was me.

I'm actually glad I went through these hardships or I wouldn't have done anything about it like having to go to outreach treatments and programs and taking a step to join this site without denial. It's helped me look more outside myself. So I believe there is hope with some of these irritating quirks just no cure. I'm a witness to it. I've also been learning to listen to people rather than just speak on behalf of myself. I think that was another reason why people "ignored" me or weren't interested. It wasn't just because I was "weird" but rather socially egocentric and one-sided.

It's nice to see an NT post here who cares about their sibling. You mostly see NTs who have children with aspergers or autism. Some people who know about aspergers don't even bother to wanna know more because it isn't their concern. I don't mean they're bad people, it's just not something they have or have an interest in.

Well looks like I got a little wordy myself. Good to have you here. Just thought I'd share my story. Your brother's case sounded similar to mine. It's good that you care about your brother aspies and all. Like I said, you don't see very many people who are there for someone else.

Welcome to WP!

I was lucky having Jim for a brother. Throughout the years I learned a lot about what is 'normal' and what is not and I've learned to see things in terms of alternative modes of being rather than 'right and wrong' and 'acceptable and unacceptable' social styles. It has given me an immense tolerance of non-conventional behaviour. I think everyone should have an Aspie as a friend, they would learn a lot and be better people for it.

It's true there were often times when Jims way of being caused problems and conflicts in situations where there would not have been problems conflicts if he had used a different approach. I have lost count of the number of times thoughout our childhood when I have talked to him about our different social strategies. Because this is what I thought it boiled down to, conciously adopted coping strategies deliberatly thought out and applied to social situations.

Of course it wasn't that at all, as would have been obvious to me if I had looked at the way I was behaving in social situations. I was not applying a deliberate strategy, I was acting naturally and spontaneously, as was Jim, but differently. I used to say to him that he should not be the way he was in social situations, he should try my way and then life would be happier and easier for everyone. Jims reply was that there was nothing wrong at all with the way he acted, the people he was in conflict with, usually our mother, were wrong and irrational and he was right. He was sometimes quite disparaging about 'my way' and could say quite bluntly "why should I be like you It's them who are wrong, not me" Later on, in our teens and beyond, I talked often to him about his lack of social skills and asked him why he didn't learn some. He said that if he ever thought they might be useful, he would learn some, but he didn't see the point in them. I don't think he could have learned any, even if he tried. It just wasn't in his nature.

I began to understand that Jim was the way he was because it was just the way he was. He couldn't help being what he was any more than I could.

All the conversations we had over the years about 'my way' and 'his way' of acting in relation to people did give me insight into social interactions, into the unconcious strategies, ways of behaving and the motives and logic behind them. And Jim is ultra logical. He is the most logical and rational person I have ever known. Which, of course, was part of the problem.

Rationality and logic play only a small part in everday interactions with "normal" people. Jim dismissed my explanations of their behaviour as 'irrelevant'. He couldn't appreciate the "social dance" that accompanies the interactions of "normal" people. And I slowly began to see that they, for their part, couldn't understand Jims ultra rationality and his directness to the point of bluntness. Jims way was just as valid as theirs, mine or anyone elses, just different. There would also have been less conflict and unpleasantness if people could have understood and accepted Jims alternative way of behaving.

Because there is nothing wrong with Jim. He is just different, and there is nothing wrong with being different. Jim is a compassionate and beautiful human being. He means no one any harm, even the people he insults and upsets. He would be upset and surprised, and throughout the years he sometimes has been, to know he has upset or hurt anyone, because that has never been his intention. He just doesn't know he is doing it. And no one would be insulted or upset by Jim if they knew him or knew what he was doing in his clumsy, blunt, stiff, but ultra rational and logical way of interacting with people.

If "normals" would be more tolerant and undertanding of alternative ways of socially interacting, they would gain much too, because Jim, with his brilliant, rational, logical mind and the compassionate human being underneath it, has much to offer.

Sorry if my posts get a bit long, but I've never spoken about me and Jim and our growing up together with anyone before. I never began to consider until relatively recently that Jim might have Asperger's and it helps me understand better for me to get my thoughts written down like this.

If any parent with an Asperger's child reads this, I would say to them don't think there is anything wrong with their child. There isn't. They are just different. Try to see meaning in their difference and accept it as being just as valid a way of being as "normal." Their child will have problems with "normals" during their lives, but they should try to look at "normals" as if it is they who have the problems, because in some ways it is, and help their child to be tolerant of and cope with problematic "normals" who don't understand alternative ways of being.

You're a sweet brother. I'm sorry Jim thinks insulting people is okay. That you were willing to learn so much from him is a testament to goodness. Would that all of us, NT and AS would try so hard to learn from the other side.

Welcome to the forum Svenne!!

You are a credit to NT's everywhere!