Website Offline, No Cached Version Available

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sliqua-jcooter
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18 Apr 2012, 8:16 pm

nat4200 wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
nat4200 wrote:
EDIT: Also Sliqua people PLEASE consider putting an expires header on resources like images, etc. An Etag is nice but my browser still has to make to a bunch of HTTP requests to confirm the images have not changed. As the site's cookies also get sent to the WP CDN domain and are several KB in size, a single page load (even with a primed cache) results in quite a bit of data going back and fro in HTTP headers :(


We don't control the CDN or what headers it exposes

You should contact the company that does control the WP CDN domain then as cdn.wrongplanet.net is then falsely claiming to be "Server: Sliqua Server Environment" in it's HTTP responses.

If you mean Cloudflare is sitting in front of cdn.wrongplanet.net, then please be serious, Cloudflare is not removing expires headers and replacing them with Etags, and Cloudflare could probably generate even fewer requests back to the Sliqua servers if it could benefit from that expires information itself. Cloudflare is not the problem.

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
nor is it within our right to enforce an expiry header on our customers' data.

Fair enough, but I suspect you can ask "Hey Alex - can we do a good thing that makes things slightly faster for end users at next to no effort?"

You have previously asserted Alex is not technical and you seem to help him with such decisions... if I'm wrong and you just talk to him about cars and drinking and girls then I'm sorry I miss understood your familiarity.

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Furthermore, since practically every modern browser can do concurrent requests, and we're talking about <120 bytes per request

No we aren't. We're talking alot more data per request than that, but your right that alot will be sent in parallel...

Refreshing the forum page ( www.wrongplanet.net/posts194419-start75.html ) with a fully primed cache for that unchanged page generated 16 requests to cdn.wrongplanet.net that responded 304 Not Modified, for which a total of 19.3KB in headers were uploaded (1.2KB uploaded per request). Sure downstream these 16 requests pulled only about 184 bytes each...

Because of the way you have ETags configured (corresponding to inodes I believe) a further two requests pulled down images because the server those requests was sent to had a different idea about which ETags it should see. This added a further 2.5KB up, and an additional 3.3KB down

Additionally there were 11 static assets from www.wrongplanet.net which were responded with a 304 Not Modified header - the additional cookies on this domain mean that 69.6KB was sent in request headers for the browser to confirm these assets had not changed (the 304 responses weighed only 3.4 KB combined)

Sending almost 90KB to wrongplanet domains every page load is significant when it is almost completely avoidable, 90KB up is heavy! And I feel it's easy thing to make it go away...


90KB is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall page size, it's also a drop in the bucket in terms of the average user's available throughput. It would result in a negligible impact to end users, and has the potential to cause more issues with stale caches on the CDN and CloudFlare layers. There is no compelling reason for me to make such a suggestion, and no compelling reason to waste time debating about it, and no compelling reason for me to justify my actions to anyone.


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nat4200
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18 Apr 2012, 8:23 pm

Redacted



Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

sliqua-jcooter
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18 Apr 2012, 8:37 pm

nat4200 wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
90KB is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall page size, it's also a drop in the bucket in terms of the average user's available throughput. It would result in a negligible impact to end users, and has the potential to cause more issues with stale caches on the CDN and CloudFlare layers. There is no compelling reason for me to make such a suggestion, and no compelling reason to waste time debating about it, and no compelling reason for me to justify my actions to anyone.

That's your choice, we both understand that you don't need to follow my recommendations. You obviously understand also that I disagree.

Given I was right about the "CloudFlare Issue" a full week before you discovered the real cause was where I had said it was (being a security module on the server picking up the high traffic from cloudflare nodes as an attack), I'd have though you'd have a little more respect for my opinion, but I'm gotten quite used to your "attitude" by now, even if it's still really upsetting to continue to be treated this rudely.


I respect your knowledge, and concede that your suggestion would improve performance. My point is there is more to consider than what you see. There are systems in place that I haven't (and can't) talk about publicly that would be impacted by such a change, and there are considerations other than performance that need to be looked at when making changes like that, including factors that have nothing to do with the technical side of things. When you look at the whole of the parts, making a change like that would be far more trouble than it's worth. Your statistics themselves show that the time spent sending/receiving requests from the server is a tiny fraction of the total time spent loading a page.

The simple fact is that I don't have to post on here at all. The person I ultimately answer to is Alex. I'm here to shed what light I can on what I know about, and make suggestions. As is pointed out in my signature, I don't represent Sliqua, or WP, on this forum.

As for my "attitude", I can recall two times where I have had any issue with you whatsoever - both times have been over trivial details that don't matter in the bigger picture. Everything else is you misinterpreting something.


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bcousins
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18 Apr 2012, 10:10 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

The simple fact is that I don't have to post on here at all. The person I ultimately answer to is Alex. I'm here to shed what light I can on what I know about, and make suggestions. As is pointed out in my signature, I don't represent Sliqua, or WP, on this forum.


As you are - After all - Another contributer to the forums, NT or not.

Out of curiosity, Is the server "Managed", because if it isnt, there is no reason for you to care about how the server is working as it is working.


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sliqua-jcooter
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18 Apr 2012, 10:12 pm

bcousins wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:

The simple fact is that I don't have to post on here at all. The person I ultimately answer to is Alex. I'm here to shed what light I can on what I know about, and make suggestions. As is pointed out in my signature, I don't represent Sliqua, or WP, on this forum.


As you are - After all - Another contributer to the forums, NT or not.

Out of curiosity, Is the server "Managed", because if it isnt, there is no reason for you to care about how the server is working as it is working.


I can't comment on anything related to the actual service that's being provided. You'll just have to draw your own conclusions.


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bcousins
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18 Apr 2012, 11:17 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
bcousins wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:

The simple fact is that I don't have to post on here at all. The person I ultimately answer to is Alex. I'm here to shed what light I can on what I know about, and make suggestions. As is pointed out in my signature, I don't represent Sliqua, or WP, on this forum.


As you are - After all - Another contributer to the forums, NT or not.

Out of curiosity, Is the server "Managed", because if it isnt, there is no reason for you to care about how the server is working as it is working.


I can't comment on anything related to the actual service that's being provided. You'll just have to draw your own conclusions.


Thats right... Stupid me.


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sliqua-jcooter
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19 Apr 2012, 12:28 am

nat4200 wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
90KB is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall page size, it's also a drop in the bucket in terms of the average user's available throughput. It would result in a negligible impact to end users, and has the potential to cause more issues with stale caches on the CDN and CloudFlare layers. There is no compelling reason for me to make such a suggestion, and no compelling reason to waste time debating about it, and no compelling reason for me to justify my actions to anyone.

That's your choice, we both understand that you don't need to follow my recommendations. You obviously understand also that I disagree.

Given I was right about the "CloudFlare Issue" a full week before you discovered the real cause was where I had said it was (being a security module on the server picking up the high traffic from cloudflare nodes as an attack), I'd have though you'd have a little more respect for my opinion, but I'm gotten quite used to your "attitude" by now, even if it's still really upsetting to continue to be treated this rudely.


I've taken a second look at your argument, and I may see your point a little better.

Is your concern the performance impact on page load times? or is it a function of overall bandwidth consumption?

I was previously looking at it strictly from a performance standpoint, as I have no real reason to consider how much I actually transfer due to the way Internet access is billed here.

EDIT: I thought it was worth pointing out that it's not really fair to say that Alex isn't technical. He's just not really an engineer.


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19 Apr 2012, 4:16 pm

I lost access to the site for roughly 15 minutes but I did not see the Cloudfare message. Instead, I saw a Google page that read: Google Chrome could not load wrongplanet,net." I was given an option to load a Google cached copy.


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TenPencePiece
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19 Apr 2012, 4:56 pm

Well, it's happened twice today in it's "new form" that Cornflake described a while back
Going to homepage and retrying there seems to fix the problem.


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21 Apr 2012, 10:36 am

Got this two hours ago:

Image


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Cornflake
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21 Apr 2012, 10:39 am

^^ Ooh, that's a bit different: there's no mention of caching or "Try for a live version" button.


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TenPencePiece
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21 Apr 2012, 6:47 pm

Now, I'm sure I've had that one once before
In any case, it's been a common occurance the past 2 days, oh well!


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TallyMan
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22 Apr 2012, 12:45 pm

I just had the message:

Quote:
This page (http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums.html) is currently offline. However, because the site uses CloudFlare's Always Online™ technology you can continue to surf a snapshot of the site. We will keep checking in the background and, as soon as the site comes back, you will automatically be served the live version. Always Online™ is powered by CloudFlare | Hide this Alert


The retry for live version didn't work either. Had to close browser and restart it.


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22 Apr 2012, 1:02 pm

I just encountered the page I previously posted.


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abacacus
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22 Apr 2012, 1:04 pm

I just got the whole "retry for a live version" thing as well, on Google Chrome.


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22 Apr 2012, 1:17 pm

^^ Same for me, on Firefox.


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