Bullying

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I would like to know why this forum feels it's appropriate to make someone feel bad when posing a question.
Gas lighting and bullying should not be allowed here, I don't allow it in my Facebook group so I do not expect to see it here.

It shouldn't be allowed. You can always hit the Report button if you feel someone is bullying you or PM a mad about it.

I missed it, I guess.

I agree. The problem is some bully others in a passive-aggressive way and deny that they have ill intentions. They do it that way because it's not easy to prove they are bullying when it's not direct. I think the majority of members are rather courteous towards others.

What I usually do is just to completely ignore the person when I sense he/she is unnecessarily being not nice.

It is neither gas-lighting nor bullying to:

- Correct someone's factual errors.

- Point out someone's faulty reasoning.

- Express opinions that differ from the opinions of another person.

- Illuminate an invalid assumption.

- Refute a claim by using know facts and principles that have been successfully demonstrated over and over again.

- Dismiss a claim as racist, sexist, or otherwise bigoted in any way.

I guess what would be useful, is if a forum similar to this one were to use an artificial intelligence algorithm to parse all responses for their meaning and to filter out the ones with any contention in them, the user would have the option to turn this on or off, depending on how brave they were feeling that day.

It is bullying if the attack language is directly related to a member.

It can feel like bullying but it is not necessarily so when when your opinion is one not shared by most people.

We should be sensitive to the fact that many members have received lifelong bullying are in a fragile mental state and will perceive bullying when it is not there.

We should be sensitive to the fact that autistics use blunt language that may seem like bullying but is not
We should be sensitive to the fact that autistics are often censored from using their natural blunt language and desperately need a place like WP to be themselves

Unfortunately the things we need to be sensitive to often conflict with one another and there is no easy way to resolve these conflicting needs

It is bullying if the attack language is intentionally related to a member. If the language is coincidentally related to a member, then it is not bullying, either.

If two people's opinions are in conflict, and no one else cares, then which one is the bully?

Agreed. There are members here who have gone so far as to demand that the moderators ban another member for bullying that never happened.

Thank you.

Thank you, very much!

At least, not until the "Foe" or "Ignore" feature is implemented better.

If two people's opinions are in conflict, and no one else cares, then which one is the bully?

As you say unless there is intent no one. Example the word "Aspie" has been a positive useful term for me. There was a point late last year where it seemed pretty much everybody on WP, Autism bloggers etc thought the word was silly or degrading and many people expressed the desire that the word should stop being used. It felt like bullying to me when in reality it was me who had a outlier opinion at that time.

This is quite a strange first post. It would make sense if it was someone who'd been around for a little while.

Of course bullying is unacceptable.

When it comes to simple abrasiveness, there's a difficult balance to be struck. Some users delight in their rudeness. Personally, I don't have much time for them. Some are rude, but that's just because they can't be bothered to follow social rules they find confusing - they mean well, but they're not great at conveying that. Surely most users here have been accused of rudeness completely out of the blue several times in their lives? With these people, I think, as a community, we should try to encourage them to be less abrasive, whilst also accepting that they might not find it easy. If we tell people, in the friendliest way we can, "it's really upsetting when you call someone an idiot for using "Aspie" even though Asperger's is no longer in the DSM", or whatever, then the community should definitely benefit, and hopefully they will too.

Then, merely posting something on these forums can never be properly termed bullying. For example, insulting someone is just a particular case of expressing an opinion that differs from theirs, and it can be reinforced if it's based on facts. Everyone should be, therefore, entitled to tell someone else what abject and sorry excuse for a human being they are, as a sincere opinion deserving the utmost respect.

Of course, in real life, expressing opinions which offend someone for whatever reason usually has nasty consequences. Bullies need to know whom they can afford to bully and whom they can't.

Sorry, kid, but intentionally attacking a person is bullying, while intentionally attacking an opinion is not.

If you're looking for someone to approve of and endorse your rationale for making personal attacks, then you've come to the wrong place.

I don't know where or why you draw the line between criticism of a person which doesn't count as attacking them and attacking them. The only clear concept I have of attacking someone is a physical attack.

And I'm not interested in making personal attacks; just in understanding things.

[quote="Spiderpig] Dismiss a claim as racist, sexist, or otherwise bigoted in any way.

Then, merely posting something on these forums can never be properly termed bullying. For example, insulting someone is just a particular case of expressing an opinion that differs from theirs, and it can be reinforced if it's based on facts. Everyone should be, therefore, entitled to tell someone else what abject and sorry excuse for a human being they are, as a sincere opinion deserving the utmost respect.

Of course, in real life, expressing opinions which offend someone for whatever reason usually has nasty consequences. Bullies need to know whom they can afford to bully and whom they can't.[/quote]

Fnord thinks he knows stuff and can read insight into everybody's motives when in fact the 'real' people he's been talking to, know s**t and behave like such. If you want and deserve my honest opinion you are going to have to work hard for it and not show yourself up and everyone else around you just what a drunk a***hole you really are.
Being philosophical praised often adds to this advantage and looking up to one doesn't.
I'm not harsh unless a lot of my posts look like they've been stalked by a group of the same kind and I know this from former experience.
I only give back what I give in the first place, but quite often I'd rather avoid a confrontation with a member who is hell bent on fast ridiculing and ruling other peoples aspects to the same low status as them.
Anyway the only way to get out of here, is to not serve time on the mistake of the other party, and leave the majority intact for fear of being targeted or name called and the guilty party would know they've done it when they stay hidden and don't own up to their mistakes but just try to carry on as if nothing has happened.

I agree with this persons post as it leaves no doubt that when you are here or not, you don't carry the same mind set with you as if you've been shot multiple times and are needing a brief respite.. but tackling that persons feelings towards you, will steer you in the right direction.

My future direction is well, far away from here and any ones negativity.. which I don't mind debating unless again.. it hacks into my posts and others feelings.

Good day.

It's pretty clear: attacking an IDEA is not attacking a person, even a person who has promoted or identified themselves with the idea.

Attacking the PERSON, even if only because you don't like an idea that person has expressed is a personal attack.

When in doubt, abandon criticism of the person and take up criticism of ideas or behaviors instead if you feel you have some useful criticism to impart.

It isn't to me.



To make any sense of that, I'd need to know what you mean by attacking a person, other than a physical attack. Any kind of criticism of the person is made of ideas about the person, which are ideas nonetheless, so they in principle can be the subject of a civil discussion. Whether the person is willing to discuss them on these terms is a different matter. I'm quite used to this kind of discussion, because I've had many conversations which others soon directed towards judging me, far more often than the other way round.



Personal attacks are fallacies if they're used to conclude what the other person claims must be false with no proper reason. Other than this, they're simply a change of subject.



When in doubt, do not criticize anything at all, because anything can offend. Disagreeing with someone means you think they're wrong and your opinion is better than theirs. This can be enough for some people to feel insulted, especially if their real or perceived status is higher than yours. Pointing out the fact that they're resorting to a personal attack, or any other fallacy, against you, can be offensive to them, too.

What do you mean by useful criticism? Useful to whom?

At the end of the day, what matters is power.