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Yigeren
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23 Jan 2016, 12:55 am

How would it be possible to be certain men would be prevented from posting on such a forum? It's not difficult to lie about one's gender.

Wouldn't men who are angry about being excluded actually be more likely to want to go in the women's forum once they know they aren't allowed to access it? All they would need to do is create an account, pretend to be female, and then troll the forum.



androbot01
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23 Jan 2016, 2:34 am

Fnord wrote:
Actually, I fear this website being taken over by a group of people who are hostile toward me for no other reason than the fact that I am male. I fear not having this website to log into because every opinion I presented would be taken apart and trodden upon by people who live solely for the pleasure that ridiculing others brings them. I fear being wrongly accused of thoughts and feelings I don't have by those whose agenda includes seeking approval and acceptance for themselves through bullying and insulting those of us who are targets of the arrogant elite. Finally, I hate only those who spread lies about me behind the anonymity of this website, and who troll for a negative emotional reaction from me just so they can point at me and say, "See? I told you he was like that!"

Fnord, the women on this site do not want a sub-forum so that we can talk about you. We can do that in PMs. :wink:



Adamantium
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23 Jan 2016, 9:02 am

androbot01 wrote:
Fnord, the women on this site do not want a sub-forum so that we can talk about you. We can do that in PMs. :wink:


I realize this is intended, at least in part, as humor, but it is also personalizing the discussion and could easily be perceived by Fnord as an attack. Let's (meaning the collective participants of this thread, not you specifically, androbot01) not go there. If there is more discussion of individual participants in this thread, it will be locked.

Spiderpig wrote:
The fact of the matter is that the rules clearly say it's not a forum for women only, and women's issues pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life, too. The rules don't say the forum is only about issues pertaining to women who live completely isolated from men and want nothing to do with them, to be zealously guarded from the corrupt gaze of male eyes, either.


Actually, the rules DON'T say that women's issues pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life.
What they say is this (my emphasis in italics):

DW_a_mom wrote:
Forum Guidelines – Women’s Discussion

[b]2) Involvement of male members.


While Wrong Planet rules do not prohibit posting by men in the Women’s Discussion, men who venture into this forum need to approach any reading or posting they do with an element of respect for the fact that they have just walked in on a conversation that should have little to do with them. This forum is intended to be more friendly to women, and to focus on issues unique to them.

3) Threads that say, "Women Only."

Members wishing to create threads for a restricted audience need to understand that it is not practical to prohibit members outside of the target group from reading or posting in the thread. Non-target members that enter the thread, however, are asked to treat the request - and the goals of the thread - with sensitivity and respect. Restricted threads should only be made if a poster feels there is a compelling reason to do so, and members tempted to post in violation of the request should only do so if they strongly feel they have positive, insightful information to contribute. Non-target posts that do not contribute valuable discussion may be removed at the discretion of a moderator.


As I suggested earlier, if the regular participants in the Women's Forum use these rules and make reports to the mods based on them, it would go a long way toward creating the atmosphere that they want--or, at least, removing the element that they don't want.

Males can't just go in there and post whatever they happen to think about any issue being discussed. If males do and it gets reported, mods will take action. If males want to discuss the same issues without that restriction, they could do it somewhere else on the site--PPR , In-Depth Adult Life, Random, L&D, Social Skills and Making Friends... they won't be chided for making a duplicate thread if their purpose is to have a discussion of an issue being discussed in the Women's Discussion forum but with unrestricted male participation.

I really don't think the policy about some male participation is going to change soon and I think things will get painfully difficult for the mods when there is some argument about a transgender person participating in Women's Discussion--but I strongly suggest that women who are having issues with male participants in WD use the reporting features or just PM mods and refer to the rules I highlighted here.



Last edited by Adamantium on 23 Jan 2016, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.: Needed some grammatical clarity!

Spiderpig
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23 Jan 2016, 10:47 am

Adamantium wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
The fact of the matter is that the rules clearly say it's not a forum for women only, and women's issues pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life, too. The rules don't say the forum is only about issues pertaining to women who live completely isolated from men and want nothing to do with them, to be zealously guarded from the corrupt gaze of male eyes, either.


Actually, the rules DON'T say that women's issues pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life.


No, the rules say it's not a forum for women only. That women's issues pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life is a fact, no matter what the rules allow or disallow.


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Adamantium
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23 Jan 2016, 12:58 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
The fact of the matter is that the rules clearly say it's not a forum for women only, and women's issues pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life, too. The rules don't say the forum is only about issues pertaining to women who live completely isolated from men and want nothing to do with them, to be zealously guarded from the corrupt gaze of male eyes, either.


Actually, the rules DON'T say that women's issues pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life.


No, the rules say it's not a forum for women only. That women's issues pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life is a fact, no matter what the rules allow or disallow.


I just quoted the relevant language to you. I'm not interested in arguing about it. If you feel like testing your theory, don't be surprised if moderators pay attention to the language in item 2 of the Women's Discussion rules. I will certainly be moderating from the understanding that I just gave.



Spiderpig
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23 Jan 2016, 1:40 pm

Adamantium wrote:
I just quoted the relevant language to you. I'm not interested in arguing about it. If you feel like testing your theory, don't be surprised if moderators pay attention to the language in item 2 of the Women's Discussion rules. I will certainly be moderating from the understanding that I just gave.


I'd already read those rules plenty of times, and my only "argument" was to clarify what I was telling dianthus, since you seemed to take issue with it. I have no "theory" to test---even if the rules said water is dry, and two plus two is five, water would still be wet, and two plus two would still be four. I'd know, however, that I'd soon be in trouble in such a place. Therefore, even though it's obvious that women's issues do pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life, I've gotten the message that it'd probably be very unwise to post on the "Women's Discussion" forum again from now on as a male, even if a topic involving men is brought up.

Let's see if this ends the complaints. I have a feeling it won't.


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androbot01
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23 Jan 2016, 6:30 pm

Adamantium wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Fnord, the women on this site do not want a sub-forum so that we can talk about you. We can do that in PMs. :wink:


I realize this is intended, at least in part, as humor, but it is also personalizing the discussion and could easily be perceived by Fnord as an attack. Let's (meaning the collective participants of this thread, not you specifically, androbot01) not go there. If there is more discussion of individual participants in this thread, it will be locked.

Okay, sorry. It was intended wholly as humour, but I can see how it might come off differently.

Spiderpig wrote:
Therefore, even though it's obvious that women's issues do pertain to anyone interacting with women in their life, I've gotten the message that it'd probably be very unwise to post on the "Women's Discussion" forum again from now on as a male, even if a topic involving men is brought up.

I think you are misinterpreting the forum title, Spiderpig. The forum is not a place to discuss women, it is a place for women to discuss. For example, a man having an issue with a women (let's say she has severe PMS) might want to find out more information about it, but the proper place would be adult issues, not' women's. The difference is the poster not the question. Women's forum means a place for women to express themselves, not a forum to discuss women. Does this make any sense to you? I don't think I'm explaining well.



0_equals_true
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23 Jan 2016, 6:51 pm

There is a valid argument in doing away with gendered forums altogether.

When you create a feature you create an expectation, an expectation that isn't always realistic. We are online you can't verify identity.

What next, you have to summit your diagnosis to join?

It there is no specific place for men to discuss issue so why should there be one for women?

I'm not adverse having these section but it should be consistent. Not holding the pretense it is offering protection, but simply on topic.

Lets be adults. Women's issues are also important information for men too. Sure people may be immature

The premise behind the "safe space for women" is out of touch with reality on a public forum.

Everyone is responsible for their own safety online, we can be vigilant, help each other out, but ultimately it comes down the individual.

Basically common sense would be good.



androbot01
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23 Jan 2016, 7:01 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
There is a valid argument in doing away with gendered forums altogether.

I agree. With the possible exception of having two forums, one each for men's health and women's health.

Quote:
Lets be adults. Women's issues are also important information for men too.

True, but irrelevant.

I think the initial idea of a women's forum was to create a space where women wouldn't have to compete for space amongst a larger number of males. However I have not found the other forums to be unaccepting of women's posts (with the obvious exception of Love & Dating.)



0_equals_true
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23 Jan 2016, 7:04 pm

dianthus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I just googled "women only websites". It's simply amazing how many there are!

So why are people complaining about WrongPlanet when there are literally hundreds of other websites to turn to that will give them exactly what they want?


Lol, by the same logic, why are you complaining about not wanting to be excluded from a subforum for women - where the discussions really don't pertain to you to begin with - when there are literally hundreds of other discussions on WP for you to participate in?

Why do you think it is okay for you to tell women to go find a different forum, or create a whole new forum, but it's not okay for women to prefer that men stay out of just ONE subsection of this forum?



wilburforce
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23 Jan 2016, 7:08 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
There is a valid argument in doing away with gendered forums altogether.

When you create a feature you create an expectation, an expectation that isn't always realistic. We are online you can't verify identity.

What next, you have to summit your diagnosis to join?

It there is no specific place for men to discuss issue so why should there be one for women?

I'm not adverse having these section but it should be consistent. Not holding the pretense it is offering protection, but simply on topic.

Lets be adults. Women's issues are also important information for men too. Sure people may be immature

The premise behind the "safe space for women" is out of touch with reality on a public forum.

Everyone is responsible for their own safety online, we can be vigilant, help each other out, but ultimately it comes down the individual.

Basically common sense would be good.


There is a thread for Men's Discussion: viewtopic.php?t=153669&start=555



Yigeren
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23 Jan 2016, 7:12 pm

I still don't understand how it's possible to determine who is female and keep those who do not identify as such out of the Women's Discussion forum.

And if there is a forum for men, how could that be accomplished? There is one person here who admitted to lying about her gender and then identifying herself as male for the purpose of fooling males on WP into thinking she was also male.

I see huge problems with the entire idea. Anyone can say they are anything and then start trouble because of hatred for one gender or another. There isn't a way to guarantee that it won't happen.



0_equals_true
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23 Jan 2016, 7:21 pm

wilburforce wrote:
There is a thread for Men's Discussion: viewtopic.php?t=153669&start=555


Apples and oranges. You can't open a topic on a thread.

Long unfocused threads are not good for serious topics.



0_equals_true
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23 Jan 2016, 7:25 pm

What I would like to do away with is the clouflare DNS interference in POST backs. It is frustrating enough to have to do a Captcha. I have tried to reply to two post no avail. Having been her over 8 year, it would be good to make a quick reply without loosing my post.



androbot01
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23 Jan 2016, 7:27 pm

I right click and copy the text before I even hit submit.



Jacoby
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23 Jan 2016, 7:38 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I right click and copy the text before I even hit submit.


same, altho its usually still there if hit back at least for me