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Teach51
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20 Aug 2020, 10:33 am

Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Problem with naming names is people will still feel bullied or harassed when someone talks about them openly in a thread or something.
Have no worries.  Fnord is used to it.
Used to it?  Yes.  I would even go so far as to say I expect it, no matter what I post.  It seems as if some people cannot keep themselves from reacting badly to anything I post.

Like it?  Not so much.  The only benefits are that I know people have read my posts and are thinking of me.  What they may actually be thinking, however, is largely open to conjecture.


It may be worth a little introspection.

Maybe have a look at they posts you have made where you know people had a problem, and see if there is one (or more) factors or traits that some or all of them have in common, to help you pinpoint the cause of the problems?



That is a brilliant idea. Find the common denominator in problematic posts. Get it right the next time, that makes sense. Like reviewing a report that keeps getting sent back from the boss and you can't put your finger on where you are going wrong. Find the elusive glitch. Amend. Logical indeed.


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20 Aug 2020, 10:47 am

Fnord wrote:
As long as students refuse to accept the truth of what I teach, they will never understand the material.


This seems to imply choice. Some students have a different learning style or are not capable of learning certain concepts. I was never able to learn algebra. That didn't mean I refused to learn it, I tried to understand it but couldn't. It was too abstract for me and I am not good with abstract things.

We wouldn't say someone with low intelligence is refusing to learn life skills just because it is taking them longer to learn to hang up a jacket.


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20 Aug 2020, 10:50 am

Steve1963 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
There is no "problem" with being concise, direct, and truthful, except in the minds of those who want everything soft, sugar-coated, and painted in pastel colors.

There's a whole lot of space in between the two of those. You don't do gray, do you?



Isn't being black and white and honest a autism characteristic?

I can't believe he is being scolded for one of his symptoms. :lol:


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20 Aug 2020, 10:50 am

Teach51 wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Pepe wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Problem with naming names is people will still feel bullied or harassed when someone talks about them openly in a thread or something.
Have no worries.  Fnord is used to it.
Used to it?  Yes.  I would even go so far as to say I expect it, no matter what I post.  It seems as if some people cannot keep themselves from reacting badly to anything I post.  Like it?  Not so much.  The only benefits are that I know people have read my posts and are thinking of me.  What they may actually be thinking, however, is largely open to conjecture.
It may be worth a little introspection.  Maybe have a look at they posts you have made where you know people had a problem, and see if there is one (or more) factors or traits that some or all of them have in common, to help you pinpoint the cause of the problems?
That is a brilliant idea. Find the common denominator in problematic posts. Get it right the next time, that makes sense. Like reviewing a report that keeps getting sent back from the boss and you can't put your finger on where you are going wrong. Find the elusive glitch. Amend. Logical indeed.
Single Most Common Denominator: Sticking to the facts, no matter what.

Conclusion: I should wait for threads to develop a few pages before submitting a post full of the most popular and pleasant little lies already stated in that thread, even if those lies conflict with lies I subsequently post in other threads.

Thanks for the advice!

:D



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20 Aug 2020, 10:54 am

Fnord wrote:
Thanks for the advice!

:D

Sarcasm?



Last edited by Steve1963 on 20 Aug 2020, 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

League_Girl
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20 Aug 2020, 11:00 am

I never knew telling someone to have a nice day was sarcasm. I thought they were just being polite so they are not taken as hostile because this is the internet where it's easy to misinterpret tone.

You can even be supportive to someone and that person can take your tone as bullying.


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20 Aug 2020, 11:02 am

League_Girl wrote:
Fnord wrote:
As long as students refuse to accept the truth of what I teach, they will never understand the material.
This seems to imply choice....
For some, it is all about choosing to reject the truth and choosing to believe the lies.

I used to tutor.  One student was failing history, so his parents asked me to tutor him on that subject.  I spent the first week deconstructing the conspiracy theories in which he believed, and the lessons seemed to go smoothly after that; but every few lessons, he would flat out deny what his history books told him, and would launch into a rant about what he believed really happened.

At the end of the semester, his report card arrived.  He had failed History.  All of his other grades were in the A-B range.  His parents were distraught, and I refunded their fee.

He failed History because he chose to believe what he heard on late-night talk radio instead of what was written in his textbooks.  Now, while I cannot account for the veracity of those textbooks, I can state for a fact that the material in those textbooks was what he was expected to learn, and since he chose to learn something else, he received a failing grade.

I don't know what happened to him after that ... maybe he went into politics ...



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20 Aug 2020, 11:03 am

Steve1963 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Thanks for the advice!
Sarcasm?
I posted what I meant.



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20 Aug 2020, 11:10 am

League_Girl wrote:
... You can even be supportive to someone and that person can take your tone as bullying.

EXACTLY!!


Oh, thankyouthankyouthankyou for affirming what I have been trying to get across -- even the most helpful of intent matters for nothing if someone assumes that your intent is hostile!  It is by assumption that people are accused, and not by fact.

Thanks again!

(By the way ... the only "tone" in silent reading exists in the readers own mind.)



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20 Aug 2020, 11:17 am

Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
... You can even be supportive to someone and that person can take your tone as bullying.

EXACTLY!!


Oh, thankyouthankyouthankyou for affirming what I have been trying to get across -- even the most helpful of intent matters for nothing if someone assumes that your intent is hostile!  It is by assumption that people are accused, and not by fact.

Thanks again!


So you are advising more clarification of intent? That's something I forget to do sometimes. That would avoid un-necessary misunderstandings. How could we encourage posters to do that more? By example is what comes to mind. Not being sarcastic btw. Truly enquiring.


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20 Aug 2020, 11:27 am

There have been several occasions in which my posts have been taken poorly by a reader. I have apologized for the posts and never meant them to be offensive. I have to think very hard to come up with a post that I think cannot be taken poorly. I suppose that is like walking on egg shells. It is difficult for me to express my ideas.

I think there has been way too much focus on Fnord in this thread. Fnord is irrelevant to the well-being of the forum. Even if I were to stipulate that all the accusations were true, I still do not see Fnord as a reason for the site to be going downhill. So many pages of a thread being devoted to one person is insane, people. (I am trying to figure out if that last sentence is permitted.)

Everyone posting now has contributed in a positive way to the discussion. I sense we are moving forward. With the addition of the new mods, I think things will improve. I see improvements just in this thread. People are posting thoughtful posts and are being listened to. Even though unhappy about some things, we are at least talking about them.

BR, I find your posts most valuable and do not see your posts in this thread as endangering what others think of you. You had some good points to make and you made them. IL the same for you. You have some very good points and it appears there was some serious mod failures there...but maybe that is a lesson for the incoming mods and for the current ones. Sometimes things get lost in the shuffle. I know it happens to me. All of you, Steve, Brictoria, Sly, Kortie, LeagueGirl, Teach, Ferris, Fnord, you all are great. I'm sure I missed some important people, but I mean you too, you all too.

Sorting things out takes patience and time. I see it in my work all the time, the sorting, the resentments, the unhappiness, the things done and not done. When everyone acts in good faith, with time, these things can be sorted.

I value all of you. Please stay. Please contribute. :heart: :heart: :heart:


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20 Aug 2020, 11:33 am

Teach51 wrote:
So you are advising more clarification of intent?
No.  The more you declare helpful intent, more more insistent the claims that your real intent is hostile.
Teach51 wrote:
How could we encourage posters to do that more?
We don't.  Instead we encourage others, by example, to not assume hostility behind disagreement of opinion or presentation of facts.

Just as we all have the responsibility to not intentionally insult others, so too do others have the responsibility to not seek insult where none was given.



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20 Aug 2020, 11:39 am

League_Girl wrote:
I never knew telling someone to have a nice day was sarcasm.
Anything can be said in a sarcastic tone. I've seen this poster use that phrase sarcastically a few times. Or at least that's how I perceived it.



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20 Aug 2020, 11:40 am

blazingstar wrote:
There have been several occasions in which my posts have been taken poorly by a reader. I have apologized for the posts and never meant them to be offensive. I have to think very hard to come up with a post that I think cannot be taken poorly. I suppose that is like walking on egg shells. It is difficult for me to express my ideas.

I think there has been way too much focus on Fnord in this thread. Fnord is irrelevant to the well-being of the forum. Even if I were to stipulate that all the accusations were true, I still do not see Fnord as a reason for the site to be going downhill. So many pages of a thread being devoted to one person is insane, people. (I am trying to figure out if that last sentence is permitted.)

Everyone posting now has contributed in a positive way to the discussion. I sense we are moving forward. With the addition of the new mods, I think things will improve. I see improvements just in this thread. People are posting thoughtful posts and are being listened to. Even though unhappy about some things, we are at least talking about them.

BR, I find your posts most valuable and do not see your posts in this thread as endangering what others think of you. You had some good points to make and you made them. IL the same for you. You have some very good points and it appears there was some serious mod failures there...but maybe that is a lesson for the incoming mods and for the current ones. Sometimes things get lost in the shuffle. I know it happens to me. All of you, Steve, Brictoria, Sly, Kortie, LeagueGirl, Teach, Ferris, Fnord, you all are great. I'm sure I missed some important people, but I mean you too, you all too.

Sorting things out takes patience and time. I see it in my work all the time, the sorting, the resentments, the unhappiness, the things done and not done. When everyone acts in good faith, with time, these things can be sorted.

I value all of you. Please stay. Please contribute. :heart: :heart: :heart:


When people have been talking about issues with bullying on this forum, it had been about Fnord all along?

I have never seen him as a bully. I have disagreed with him but I never took it as he was being a bully just because he has a different opinion or I think what he thinks is harsh like "refusing to learn" for example.


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20 Aug 2020, 11:46 am

Steve1963 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I never knew telling someone to have a nice day was sarcasm.
Anything can be said in a sarcastic tone. I've seen this poster use that phrase sarcastically a few times. Or at least that's how I perceived it.
The key phrase is "... that's how I perceived it".

As just one example: I waved at my neighbor and said "Have a nice day!" in the most cheery voice I could muster, and he replied with "What the f**** do you mean by that, s****head?"

I haven't spoken to him since.

There really are some people who perceive hostile intent where none exists.



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20 Aug 2020, 11:48 am

Fnord wrote:
The key phrase is "... that's how I perceived it".
That's why I added it. I'm not sure how to get clarification of intent though. I could ask, but you could lie.