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Fnord
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20 Aug 2020, 2:35 pm

^ Call it what you ill.  I posted an example of the point I was trying to make; nothing more.


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sly279
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20 Aug 2020, 2:37 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Apparently I need to get better at playing the victim like some of our fragile racists seem to have mastered.
Who are the fragile racists who play victim?
Hint: Look for posts submitted by, or threads started by people who maintain that: (1) Racism is not a problem, (2) Racist behavior is normal, and/or (3) Racist people are just "misunderstood".

I am not saying or implying that any specific people are racist, but only that those 3 tendencies I mentioned may be common to racist people.
Fnord gets it.
Thank you.  I want to add that while most racist people are not blatant about their racism (those who are may not be around for very long), they will tend to downplay the accomplishments of people not of their race -- they may try to "spin" every issue to put a tarnish on people of other races while putting a high polish on people of their own race, all without actually mentioning the race of any specific person.  In other words, racism on this website is both subtle and insidious.


Racist people also do not know they are racist and they will downplay everything as you said. They will also list reasons for their racism always backing it up with logic and "facts."

For example they will look at people like Oprah or Candace Owens and say black people can be successful if they try hard.

Ben Shapiro does a darn good job dismissing systemic racism.

So Morgan freeman, Samuel Jackson, and will smith are racist. Good to know.


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League_Girl
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20 Aug 2020, 2:38 pm

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
racism on this website is both subtle and insidious.
As is some of the bullying that occurs.
Are you implying that I am disgustingly overweight?
I replied to you but it was not aimed at you, but I get the point you are trying to make and in some cases that's true.
Thank you for catching on so quickly.  Yes, it does seem that people will see insult in completely unrelated statements, and I hope the message was not lost on others.


Like you said some see insults in completely unrelated statements but it can also be a tactic used by narcissists and learned behaviour by narcissist survivors to gaslight people.

Again I am replying to you , it is not aimed at you. ( this is going to get old real quick if I have to qualify my posts :lol: )



Except narcissists do actually insult you and then say they didn't mean it like that or tell you something mean and then say they never said it. Their actions are direct and when you call them out on it, they will deny it.

There is a difference between a misunderstanding and explaining your intentions and someone doing it intentionally. It will be like if I told you you were dumb and then deny I ever said you were dumb when you call me out on it. This is what they do.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Aug 2020, 2:44 pm

If somebody says "they never said it," that somebody is a gaslighter.



Oh_no_its_Ferris
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20 Aug 2020, 2:46 pm

Fnord wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Based on context, #5.
^ correct
So ... is there an expert here ... someone with an advanced degree in linguistics, perhaps?


probably but it aint me :lol:

It's not easy being a mod when linguistics appear to be abused. Mistakes can be made but a mod sees a lot lot more than a mere member , we all have a file :twisted: .


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League_Girl
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20 Aug 2020, 2:46 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Apparently I need to get better at playing the victim like some of our fragile racists seem to have mastered.
Who are the fragile racists who play victim?
Hint: Look for posts submitted by, or threads started by people who maintain that: (1) Racism is not a problem, (2) Racist behavior is normal, and/or (3) Racist people are just "misunderstood".

I am not saying or implying that any specific people are racist, but only that those 3 tendencies I mentioned may be common to racist people.
Fnord gets it.
Thank you.  I want to add that while most racist people are not blatant about their racism (those who are may not be around for very long), they will tend to downplay the accomplishments of people not of their race -- they may try to "spin" every issue to put a tarnish on people of other races while putting a high polish on people of their own race, all without actually mentioning the race of any specific person.  In other words, racism on this website is both subtle and insidious.
That's one of the more common items I would refer to as 'white supremacism', and it's one that's readily addressable because teaching the accomplishments of Amerind and African peoples alongside those of the Middle Eastern peoples that Europeans claim the heritage of** would go a long way towards reducing that tendency. This is why some communities are much more vocal about cultural appropriation than others, because they're used to constantly being diminished and not credited for their stuff.

**for that matter I'd encourage the teaching of Europe's deep history alongside the traditional Western canon
One of of the kids I tutored in History was shocked and appalled when she read the accounts of King Philip's War in 17th-century North America.  She was under the false impression that English colonists and Native Americans always got along with each other.  When she found out that there was a deliberate and on-going effort to massacre Native Americans to take possession of their lands from the east coast to the west, she broke down in tears (I guess they just don't teach the "dark side" of history in public schools any more); but her senior essay on Colonial Imperialism earned her an A+ and a thousand-dollar scholarship grant.[/color]



Funny enough, I knew all these things as a little girl because my dad is a Native American and so is his father and grandmother and me and my brothers are descendants.

We never learned Native American history in school and I assumed everyone knew this because I knew. But yet I had the impression that Native Americans lived in tepees because we always went to pow wows and my mom had to tell me they live in regular houses like us and wear regular clothes like us and drive cars and do the same things we do. Then I learned my dad was Native and so was my grandfather and my dad's cousin.

I noticed in books that Natives were always painted as villains because they would attack the pioneers who were going out west. But my mom told me they only attacked because their land was stolen so they thought they were going to come take their land so they would fight them. Then there were some that did trades so they used it to their advantage and pioneers could tell if they were there to fight or trade. Not all white people went around killing Native Americans and even some Natives knew this too so they did trades with them.


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20 Aug 2020, 2:47 pm

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
... ( this is going to get old real quick if I have to qualify my posts :lol: )
But this seems to be the way the discussion is going, in that we might all eventually be expected to explain, re-explain, and over-explain what we said, why we said it, to whom it was directed, and what we "really" meant when we said it.  It's like filling out an environmental impact statement on a tool shed -- more trees were felled to make the paper than the shed itself is worth.


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20 Aug 2020, 2:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
^ Call it what you ill.  I posted an example of the point I was trying to make; nothing more.



I wasn't saying you were doing a straw man, I was saying you can write something and someone will turn it into something else hence a straw man. I was agreeing with you.


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20 Aug 2020, 2:49 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If somebody says "they never said it," that somebody is a gaslighter.


I actually have said those words because people have put words in my mouth or misconstrued what I said.


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Fnord
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20 Aug 2020, 2:50 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If somebody says "they never said it," that somebody is a gaslighter.
<* ahem *>

 
Image


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Fnord
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20 Aug 2020, 2:51 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Fnord wrote:
^ Call it what you ill.  I posted an example of the point I was trying to make; nothing more.
I wasn't saying you were doing a straw man, I was saying you can write something and someone will turn it into something else hence a straw man. I was agreeing with you.
Oh, I'm sorry.  Stupid me.

:(


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Fnord
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20 Aug 2020, 2:55 pm

League_Girl wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
If somebody says "they never said it," that somebody is a gaslighter.
I actually have said those words because people have put words in my mouth or misconstrued what I said.
Sometimes, you have to ask for evidence and/or a link to the alleged quote to get those people off your back.

But that can also be construed as bullying, so be careful.


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20 Aug 2020, 2:56 pm

Fnord wrote:
^ Call it what you ill.  I posted an example of the point I was trying to make; nothing more.




No ill will for letting this typo slip through... :wink:


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20 Aug 2020, 2:58 pm

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Based on context, #5.
^ correct
So ... is there an expert here ... someone with an advanced degree in linguistics, perhaps?


probably but it aint me :lol:

It's not easy being a mod when linguistics appear to be abused. Mistakes can be made but a mod sees a lot lot more than a mere member , we all have a file :twisted: .


I have an advanced English degree, and I studied Linguistics. What are we questioning?


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Oh_no_its_Ferris
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20 Aug 2020, 2:58 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
Fnord wrote:
racism on this website is both subtle and insidious.
As is some of the bullying that occurs.
Are you implying that I am disgustingly overweight?
I replied to you but it was not aimed at you, but I get the point you are trying to make and in some cases that's true.
Thank you for catching on so quickly.  Yes, it does seem that people will see insult in completely unrelated statements, and I hope the message was not lost on others.


Like you said some see insults in completely unrelated statements but it can also be a tactic used by narcissists and learned behaviour by narcissist survivors to gaslight people.

Again I am replying to you , it is not aimed at you. ( this is going to get old real quick if I have to qualify my posts :lol: )



Except narcissists do actually insult you and then say they didn't mean it like that or tell you something mean and then say they never said it. Their actions are direct and when you call them out on it, they will deny it.

There is a difference between a misunderstanding and explaining your intentions and someone doing it intentionally. It will be like if I told you you were dumb and then deny I ever said you were dumb when you call me out on it. This is what they do.


I suggest you read up on all types of narcissist behaviour if you truly want to know what they are capable of.
Your explanation is only one type of behaviour , there is a lot of nuance involved.
And I agree there is a difference between a misunderstanding and explaining your intentions and someone doing it intentionally.
Your 'dumb' analogy is only one obvious form of gaslighting , there are many more forms


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20 Aug 2020, 3:01 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I have an advanced English degree, and I studied Linguistics. What are we questioning?
How to divine writers' intent from their text-only communications.


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