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The female troll squad in love & dating

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iamnotaparakeet
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11 Sep 2010, 2:58 pm

dryad wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If I do indicate it was sarcasm, I might have people demanding my banishment based upon being anti-feminist.


i don't understand how objecting to unprovoked attacks by one person on another is anti-feminist? you didn't say women don't have equal rights...

i'm confused. story of my life. :lol:


I'm not against women having equal rights, but usually there are plenty of misandrous people who are feminists who are the most vocal in their hatred of men. They tend to overshadow legitimate issues, such as having equal rights, with issues of their own contempt for men. People who want equality, not against them. People who want to demonize other human beings just for being male, I am against them.



hyperlexian
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11 Sep 2010, 3:05 pm

primaloath wrote:
There are good reasons to blame certain problems on women when the causes of these problems relate to behaviours characteristic of women rather than men (regardless of whether these behaviours are culturally ingrained or inborn, occur in 5% or 50% or 95% of all women). Attempting to deride or humiliate those who wish to discuss these problems in order to prevent those discussions essentially prevents them from finding a way to solve these problems.

Imagine what it would be like if I made a post in the sexual predator thread in the women's forum, intending to mock the people who shared their stories there. This would not only be unproductive, but it would also constitute further abuse.

I do not look at this from the perspective of "power", as I think it is more a matter of being comfortable to discuss issues that trouble people.
so, you think women are to blame for men's problems? therein lies the issue we are fighting against. we are NOT the cause of men's problems. it is this particular idea (among others) that we find unacceptable, so when men with this underlying attitude complain about women in the forums, we will argue against it... ESPECIALLY if the men (with this attitude) are saying that they have a lack of success with women.

we could say that certain behavioural characteristics of men cause the majority of women's problems, but it isn't a fair statement; neither is the reverse a fair statement.

blaming women does not create a dialogue. if you want to complain about how terrible most other women are because of your own experiences with certain women, we won't stop fighting in those topics because that is a big generalization.

[edited for spelling]


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primaloath
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11 Sep 2010, 3:39 pm

I will illustrate an example in which predominantly women, rather than men, cause problems to men: the loss of one's children, property and income following malicious no-fault divorce.

Another example that has been discussed in the love & dating forum is that women are naturally attracted to traits such as social status, which people with Asperger's do not typically possess. This sort of discussion is perfectly understandable, in that people intrested in the topics of love and dating legitimately want to know what motivates women to love and date. A problem arises, however, when those who feel uncomfortable about what motivates women attempt to distort the truth in order to preserve their comfort.

hyperlexian wrote:
we could say that certain behavioural characteristics of men cause the majority of women's problems, but it isn't a fair statement; neither is the reverse a fair statement.

Not the majority, but I am sure that some problems many women encounter are due to characteristics specific to men. For instance, women who are obese for medical reasons are largely regarded as unattractive. That is perfectly true and indeed unfortunate. When someone posts to discuss this issue, you will not hear me complaining about it, trying to criticize an obese poster's personality as a potential alternative reason for her rejections, calling her "entitled" etc, because that would be trolling. You have, by contrast, made many such comments yourself.



hyperlexian
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11 Sep 2010, 3:54 pm

primaloath wrote:
I will illustrate an example in which predominantly women, rather than men, cause problems to men: the loss of one's children, property and income following malicious no-fault divorce.

Another example that has been discussed in the love & dating forum is that women are naturally attracted to traits such as social status, which people with Asperger's do not typically possess. This sort of discussion is perfectly understandable, in that people intrested in the topics of love and dating legitimately want to know what motivates women to love and date. A problem arises, however, when those who feel uncomfortable about what motivates women attempt to distort the truth in order to preserve their comfort.

hyperlexian wrote:
we could say that certain behavioural characteristics of men cause the majority of women's problems, but it isn't a fair statement; neither is the reverse a fair statement.

Not the majority, but I am sure that some problems many women encounter are due to characteristics specific to men. For instance, women who are obese for medical reasons are largely regarded as unattractive. That is perfectly true and indeed unfortunate. When someone posts to discuss this issue, you will not hear me complaining about it, trying to criticize an obese poster's personality as a potential alternative reason for her rejections, calling her "entitled" etc, because that would be trolling. You have, by contrast, made many such comments yourself.
the specifics you suggested, about women being attracted to certain kinds of men - is a street that runs both ways, and i think that both sides need to shape up, and i say so over and over again. i encourage people, again and again and again and again to think about more than looks.

but... try looking at the number of posts from men where they criticize women's appearance, or where they list the qualities of physical attractiveness women are expected to fulfill, etc, then compare that to the number of comparable women's posts that criticize men's appearance, or wanting to date men of a certain income bracket. there is a huge disparity there.

also, about ways that men specifically make women's lives harder....

how about male abusers?
how about sexual harassment?
how about rape?
how about men on average being wealthier than women after a divorce?
how about men holding more positions of power in the workplace and preventing women from advancement?

just a few examples of how men are more likely to make women's lives hellish. the reverse happens as well, where women may do these things to men, but not nearly so often.

i don't understand the point you are trying to make about fatness. that is the least of most women's worries here.


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primaloath
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11 Sep 2010, 6:23 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
but... try looking at the number of posts from men where they criticize women's appearance, or where they list the qualities of physical attractiveness women are expected to fulfill, etc, then compare that to the number of comparable women's posts that criticize men's appearance, or wanting to date men of a certain income bracket. there is a huge disparity there.


The fundamental difference here is that the two posters to whom I think you are referring make these comments in their own threads. I do think it would be inappropriate if they intervened with ridicule or humiliating comments in other threads, which were unrelated to their own concerns. I believe your interventions have also been inappropriate, though I see nothing wrong with making your own threads to express concerns, as has been done in the past (e.g. the thread on entitlement).



Erisad
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11 Sep 2010, 6:54 pm

Friskeygirl wrote:
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female troll squad in love & dating

oh my god, its normally just woman hating misogynists trolls in there


I know right? :lol:


Anyone can be abusive, regardless of age, gender, race, sexuality, etc. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for people. :roll:



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11 Sep 2010, 8:14 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Don't you know? Only men can be abusers and only women can be victims.

False! men are the actual victims and women are the source of all evil.

hyperlexian wrote:
so, you think women are to blame for men's problems?

Whose fault is it that humanity got cast out from paradise? :P


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Erisad
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11 Sep 2010, 8:19 pm

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Don't you know? Only men can be abusers and only women can be victims.

False! men are the actual victims and women are the source of all evil.

hyperlexian wrote:
so, you think women are to blame for men's problems?

Whose fault is it that humanity got cast out from paradise? :P


Wow. Adam didn't HAVE to eat the apple, you know. He was just stupid enough and got duped. It's opinions like this that really piss me off. Seriously, why would you place the blame on an entire group for the mistakes of a select few? What is your goal anyway? If it's only to spread hate, than GTFO. We have enough misogynists here. :roll:



greenblue
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11 Sep 2010, 9:09 pm

Erisad wrote:
Wow. Adam didn't HAVE to eat the apple, you know. He was just stupid enough and got duped.

Right, on Eve's defense, Adam was thinking with his penis (or heart but practically the same no?) rather than his brain :P In which case, both would be to blame. And I consider the Adam & Eve to be most likely a mythical story anyway, but you seem to be a believer.

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It's opinions like this that really piss me off. Seriously, why would you place the blame on an entire group for the mistakes of a select few?

I don't, about why generalizing, well, people have their own perspective and opinions of any matter, some are radicals, etc. usually I consider experiences and psychological issues to be most likely the case. So yes, making a generalization about a certain group of people, the fear, the distrust, is mostly due to hard experiences probably in most cases, which is something that is somehow expected, heck, current discussions in the PPR forum is an example of this.

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What is your goal anyway? If it's only to spread hate, than GTFO. We have enough misogynists here. :roll:

I don't know how many we have here, I don't frequent the love&dating forum, however, I tend to distrust the use of the label, as well as the cases when the term "Politically Correcteness" is used is questionable, but sometimes it has its value.


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katzefrau
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11 Sep 2010, 9:21 pm

apparently we need a men's forum where women are (more transparently) not allowed to post. then you can bash them there all you want.


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Erisad
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11 Sep 2010, 9:21 pm

greenblue wrote:
Erisad wrote:
Wow. Adam didn't HAVE to eat the apple, you know. He was just stupid enough and got duped.

Right, on Eve's defense, Adam was thinking with his penis (or heart but practically the same no?) rather than his brain :P In which case, both would be to blame. And I consider the Adam & Eve to be most likely a mythical story anyway, but you seem to be a believer.

Quote:
It's opinions like this that really piss me off. Seriously, why would you place the blame on an entire group for the mistakes of a select few?

I don't, about why generalizing, well, people have their own perspective and opinions of any matter, some are radicals, etc. usually I consider experiences and psychological issues to be most likely the case. So yes, making a generalization about a certain group of people, the fear, the distrust, is mostly due to hard experiences probably in most cases, which is something that is somehow expected, heck, current discussions in the PPR forum is an example of this.

Quote:
What is your goal anyway? If it's only to spread hate, than GTFO. We have enough misogynists here. :roll:

I don't know how many we have here, I don't frequent the love&dating forum, however, I tend to distrust the use of the label, as well as the cases when the term "Politically Correcteness" is used is questionable, but sometimes it has its value.


Exactly, both are to blame. Just like with the problems between men and women in the world. No one is perfectly innocent and making a monster out of either gender is immature and ridiculous. Besides, just because one woman did you wrong, doesn't make all women abusing/cheating/scumbags. :roll:



Erisad
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11 Sep 2010, 9:23 pm

katzefrau wrote:
apparently we need a men's forum where women are (more transparently) not allowed to post. then you can bash them there all you want.


Wouldn't that just inspire hate on the forum? We don't need anymore of that. :roll:



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11 Sep 2010, 9:40 pm

Erisad wrote:
Exactly, both are to blame. Just like with the problems between men and women in the world. No one is perfectly innocent and making a monster out of either gender is immature and ridiculous. Besides, just because one woman did you wrong, doesn't make all women abusing/cheating/scumbags. :roll:

well yeah, I agree with that, making generalizations like that can be dangerous, there is an issue though, that after a bad experience, some people would tend to be less trusting and sometimes to the point of making a "convenient pressumption" for the sake of their own safety than anything else, much like not wanting to take any chances, and that pretty much is the same with both genders, when it comes to dating.

Now you can probably claim that the comparison between men and women on that, makes men look like cry-babies, and I think it is very probably like that, given that there seem to be scenarios in which it is worse for women, thus the psychological effects stronger.

IMHO.


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Last edited by greenblue on 11 Sep 2010, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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11 Sep 2010, 9:40 pm

primaloath wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
but... try looking at the number of posts from men where they criticize women's appearance, or where they list the qualities of physical attractiveness women are expected to fulfill, etc, then compare that to the number of comparable women's posts that criticize men's appearance, or wanting to date men of a certain income bracket. there is a huge disparity there.


The fundamental difference here is that the two posters to whom I think you are referring make these comments in their own threads. I do think it would be inappropriate if they intervened with ridicule or humiliating comments in other threads, which were unrelated to their own concerns. I believe your interventions have also been inappropriate, though I see nothing wrong with making your own threads to express concerns, as has been done in the past (e.g. the thread on entitlement).
so what if it is their own thread? they are making public statements. it's not a hidden forum - it is out in the open so if men make misogynistc statements then i (and other women here, i think) will continue to speak up about it.

anyway, posting negative comments about an entire segment of society is technically against the forum rules, so no men or women should be making nasty broad generalizations each other - we are supposed to stick to personal experiences.

by the way, i am not referring to 2 men; i am referring to at least 14 of them, at last count. and those were the ones i happened to notice.

and lastly, your opinion of whether i am making inappropriate "interventions" (whatever that means) is of absolutely no concern to me. even if there were hundreds or thousands of people who agreed with you, it still wouldn't matter. i am not breaking any forum rules, i am not hurting anybody, i am only standing up for myself as a woman. women have worked very hard to come as far as they have, and if men try to bring us down, they will be called out on their behaviour.

[edited for spelling, and removal of one inflammatory phrase]


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Last edited by hyperlexian on 11 Sep 2010, 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Erisad
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11 Sep 2010, 9:47 pm

greenblue wrote:
well yeah, I agree with that, making generalizations like that can be dangerous, there is an issue though, that after a bad experience, some people would tend to be less trusting and sometimes to the point of making a "convenient pressumption" for the sake of their own safety than anything else, much like not wanting to take any chances, and that pretty much is the same with both genders, when it comes to dating.

Now you can probably claim that the comparison between men and women on that, makes men look like cry-babies, and I think it is very probably like that, given that there seem to be scenarios in which it is worse for women, thus the psychological effects stronger.

IMHO.


Okay, I can agree with the trust thing. I have trust issues that I have to work on. >.>

As there are terrible scenarios for women, there are those for men too. A guy friend of mine was raped by a classmate (who was a guy) and I think it warped his view on sexuality something awful. Either way, cheating/abuse/rape/etc. are bad for any victim, male or female. D:



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11 Sep 2010, 10:23 pm

Erisad wrote:
katzefrau wrote:
apparently we need a men's forum where women are (more transparently) not allowed to post. then you can bash them there all you want.


Wouldn't that just inspire hate on the forum? We don't need anymore of that. :roll:


that was a (sarcastic) knee-jerk response.

i just cannot take this post seriously.


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