question for alex

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Mimicking parts of my words? The only reason I even replied to your thread here was due to your mentioning the title of my thread along with the accusation of,



Since I am the author of the satirical thread "summary execution of bullies", which abstracted from correspondence in debate with hyperlexian in the PPR Rules 2.0 thread, this therefore identifies me as the accused. As such you have effectually said that I called you a "bully" and suggested that I "like causing anger". I'm sorry, you're wrong about both the claim that I "called you a bully" and about my alleged liking to cause people to be angry. I'd like to cause people to think and abandon the common psittacisms of this era, which leads some to anger, but anger is not my goal nor do I like people being angry - especially at me. It rather sucks to have a mob of angry people to argue with, but if that is the situation I find myself in that is just the situation at present until the angry mob can be persuaded not to be an angry mob. In regard to the only heated correspondence I've had with you, in the "George Bush this, George Bush that" thread, I was annoyed when replying to you and should have just ignored you instead, but either way I did not call you a bully then and even if you infer such from the rest of that correspondence I had no thought of the particular argumentation with you when I made the thread "summary execution of bullies", which is not actually advocating the execution of anyone but instead is trying to display my opinion of censorship due to people getting offended at this or that. It wasn't about you at all.

Do you understand how satire and personal interpretations of the actions of others can so easily lead to misunderstanding and confusion all around here on WP?

Personally, I can *feel* very offended very easily, and I do not readily catch on when people are merely being satirical. So, I have had to learn to separate my own mere *feelings* from the actual *actions* of others ... and that means realizing the fact I merely happen to *feel* offended does *not* mean or prove the other person actually *has* done something wrong.

Satire and sarcasm are poor literary techniques in discussion at the best of times, but I've found that here on WP they can be even more problematic. Aspies often have problems realising that comments they make in what they intend as a satirical or sarcastic way will be taken literally by those reading the comments.

Often the poster doesn't give any indication that his comments are not to be taken literally and just assumes that based upon their previous posting history that other members will know what they really intend to say. Unfortunately this isn't always the case. I've seen several flame wars break out recently due directly to such remarks.

One particular issue cropped up recently where a member (totally unrelated to anyone in these particular discussions) was given a warning for making a seeming blatant nasty sexist attack on women. He was horrified to find out that his comments had been taken that way by several people (including me) who now considered him to be a misogynist! It seems his comment was intended as satire/sarcasm and the exact opposite of how it was taken!

Satire and sarcasm have a nasty tendency to backfire and cause problems unforeseen by the poster.

I admire you for making it through all that you have made it through, and you have acquired survival skills that will serve you well when you need them. Just ... the step right now is figuring out when to use them and when not to. I really hope you don't feel that you need to leave Wrong Planet; you are on a journey, just like the rest of us are. So things get bumpy; learning how to smooth out those bumps hopefully makes us all better people. People on this site have challenged me in ways I've not been challenged anywhere else; I'm taking that as an opportunity to do better.

I do, however, understand if the attitudes some people express towards animals are just too much for you to take. We all have our flash points, and avoiding triggers can be wise. Still, if you turn it into an opportunity ... well, only you can know if you have the desire to do that.

Whatever you do, I wish you all the best. Take care.

Question: Is it a personal attack to call out someones contradiction or hypocrisy when you see it?

I have done this before and I never understood why it pisses some people off so much when all I did was told them they do X too when they complain about others doing it or if I saw them saying one thing and then another and I ask them didn't they say X before. I got told some people lose it when their pride is hurt. It has to do with pride so some people turn into bullies when they get called out on their hypocrisy or when they get asked about when they said one thing and then another.

Did I read this right about it being a personal attack? That's what it sounded like from what I have read by DW a Mom in one of her posts about calling people out on their injustice.

I'd say it depends on the context and the forum; it's one thing to point out someone's contradictions in a debate type context, quite another in a venting type situation.

And yes, it seldom ends well, you may damage that person's credibility and standing in the forum, but the odds of them actually realizing their mistake and acknowledging it as such are minute. People will fight to the death for causes they don't actually believe in when their pride and ego are at stake; sometimes it's best just to let those things go.

If done publicly, then yes, an offense has been committed unless you have prior permission to publicly call him or her out on a matter of personal character. The idea is to guard each other's personal dignity by giving one another an opportunity to hear that kind of thing privately and to then make one's own amend in an appropriate way, time or place best for all.


I do not know that situation, but pointing out an injustice is not a personal attack as long as nothing is said about the personal character of the perpetrator.

So doing it in PM is better and not a personal attack?

So when someone once asked me on another forum "I thought you worked at a hotel?" was that a personal attack? It wasn't asked in PM. It was asked out in the open where everyone can read it.

What about when people say they are confused about something because they thought you said X and then you say Y. Is that a personal attack?

I always prefer if people ask me questions than assuming but sadly they do not and they assume instead because they don't know I am not the kind of person to blow up and get all mean and nasty when I get called out so therefore they are not going to send me a PM to even ask. I don't even care if it's done out in the open.

I was once told on another forum in PM she knows its frustrating for me when people don't admit their actions so I think they are all two faced but I have to realize I am in the minority who admits things and lot of people don't and I just have to let it go and deal with it.

Last edited by League_Girl on 15 Oct 2010, 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm beginning to understand more and more that this is the case. People seem to only look at the surface of the words and jump to any conclusions possible.

I should have worded that differently and gone a bit further with it.

Public or private, an attack is an attack -- a conscious and intentional attempt to cause someone else some kind of personal distress or humiliation or pain. Whether physically, psychologically, emotionally or mentally, we each know what it is like either to attack or to be attacked, and it is simply never okay to attack ... and of course, defending oneself against an attack is an entirely different matter (at least as long as one's defense does not include an attack).

Approaching someone about his or her personal character is not automatically an attack, and not even if the individual being approached happens to "feel" attacked. However, it would be a personal offense or "attack" against that person to make that approach in a publicly-humiliating way. For example:

I began posting in this thread while very well aware the OP's questions were specifically intended for Alex, and I do not suffer any delusion about being a spokesman for Alex. So, I have been (and I still am) quite prepared to accept any criticism anyone might have as an allegation of arrogance (or whatever else) on my part here ... but if someone were to bring that kind of thing to me in private, there is no way I could legitimately consider that kind of approach an offense or personal attack against me.


Like Dox47 mentioned earlier, an answer there is at least somewhat dependent upon context ... yet it was certainly not good for someone else to have publicly mentioned any of your personal business.


If you were being called out because someone suspected you of lying, his or her initial approach to you should have been made privately. If someone was simply surprised and had thoughtlessly "burst out" with something like that, then you should (if you wish) go to him or her privately and quietly ask for a little more emotional restraint in the future.


If someone is truly confused about something, there is nothing wrong with him or her saying so ... and then you should have the option of whether to explain something either publicly or privately.


Ideally, we would each and all be willing to live in glass houses.

Last edited by leejosepho on 15 Oct 2010, 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The real trick is separating the legitimate AS related confusion from the malicious intentional misconstruing. I'm sure as a PPR vet you've seen how certain posters try to twist words around to draw the most unflattering conclusions; I've had one poster trying to tie me to "right wing militia groups" for years despite my black fiance, gay friends and lack of Christianity, things that usually preclude entry into those types of groups... Doesn't stop him from trying though.

It's actually difficult for me to tell, when people start seeming to twist my words, if they actually believe what they are saying or if they are just trying to bait me. If I've had long time correspondence with them, then its easier to tell. Then again, I think somewhere along the line I may have upset greenblue, who was previously hospitable to me, and it seems that now he's somewhat hostile to me. I don't even know where I might have upset him or if I'm just misinterpreting things myself. I try to make a conscious effort to doubt the worst interpretation of what people say, although my natural tendency is to assume the worst. I suppose there are plenty of people out there who just go with their initial impression and leave it at that, but I've learn that, often enough, first impressions are incorrect impressions - usually leading to false extrapolations based upon minimal data. Sorry you keep having intentional misconstrual of your words, although it wouldn't bother me to be labeled as being a member of a militia, so long as that militia in question is only interested in practicing the right to bear arms and only interested in shooting the crap out of inanimate objects. What would also be cool is having a Roman legion type of club and learning how to fire ballistae, throw pila, use gladii and pugio daggers. Marching in formation and dressing up as a kick-butt soldier of the ancient world would be awesome to me.

I think I get it. I attack people all the time, my friends, my family, my husband because I hate liars and hypocrisy and sometimes I get confused by what they say and do so I call them out on it by asking them or pointing it out to them. An example would be this:

My husband told me he doesn't mind heat and he is used to it. He grew up without AC so therefore it does not bother him. But it gets hot out in the summer, my husband uses our AC when he sleeps. I tell him "I thought you didn't mind the heat and were used to it" and I was also telling him he doesn't need to use AC since he is so used to the heat. But he told me sleeping in the heat is different than being in it when you are awake. I asked him how did he even sleep then as a kid without AC. He said it was very hard.

There was another time when one of my online friends said she trolls and she also said trolling is a good way to blow off some steam when you are angry. But then one day she said she hates trolls and doesn't do it so I asked her about it on IM. I told her she said that and then she said this and I am so confused about it.


I do these things all the time; online, real life, to everyone. Heck even parents do it to their kids. A child might refuse to finish their dinner so they say they are full, then the next minute they want dessert so the parent says "I thought you said you were full?"

I guess I am still confused. If it is still an attack I do to everyone and it's also attacks parents do to their kids, I guess it's not a bad thing and I get it and am not confused. But just as long as you aren't doing it to humiliate or cause pain, it's okay. Even if it's done in private. Did I read that right?

I never saw it as a personal attack to call people out on this stuff. If you are not lying and you are being truthful, I don't see why you get all upset because you have nothing to hide and you can easily explain yourself. If you are not sure what the person is talking about, you can simply ask them to clarify and back up what they say. I always want people to explain themselves. Same as if they say two different things. Like if they said what job they have then five months later, they claim to have a different job so I tell them I thought they worked as a (fill in the blank here) and that person responds back as that she quit that job and got this one instead and I am like oh okay. End of story. No humiliation and all. No pain, nothing and I wouldn't see why it would cause pain or humiliation. Or what if I asked did that person quit her job or what and got a new one?

I would not call that an attack as much as you simply looking for consistency and clarification, but I am not saying you are wrong to see things as you do. Something that certainly *would* be wrong, however, at least as I see things, would be if you began going on outside and shouting your husband's inconsistencies in front of all your neighbours. Some of us, including myself, are very "concrete-absolute" in our thinking and just cannot stand it when people do not say what they mean and mean what they say, but demanding the entire world think and act like that is only going to cause frustration and pain all around.

Such are the challenges of life.


Many people today live by "situation ethics" and use all kind of nonsense to rationalize and presume to justify their confused and confusing actions.


Some parents foolishly argue and attempt to reason with their children.


The idea here is to only do what is best for the other person, and that at least can be very subjective. Sometimes it pains me to see my wife cause more work for herself in the kitchen -- she does very well everywhere else -- but I have stopped pointing that kind of thing out to her because she is aware and does not see any need or have any desire to change ... and she no longer complains about my not doing dishes because I refuse to repeatedly clean up unnecessary messes.


It is not, but neither is it always fruitful for anyone to say anything at all. For me to continue calling my wife out for things I consider stupid would only be self-serving.


Same here, but many people simply cannot.

Gah now I am confused, again. First you say it is a personal attack and then you say it's not. Oh well, thanks for trying to explain, I don't want to frustrate you with me not getting it by keeping on asking.

How can they not explain themselves?

Only way they be unable to is if they have no memory of saying something or doing something you claimed they said or did and you couldn't be arsed to do some research to find that post to show them to refresh their memory. I usually let it go if that happens and take their word for it.

When people accuse me of doing things, I always want examples and stuff or have them tell me things to try and refresh me but I just shrug it off if I still can't remember nor if they can't think of any examples of the time I did this or that they claim I do.

And sometimes people can't explain themselves because what you said about them was true so what could they say? Like the time my cousin pointed out to me I am a drama queen when I said I hate drama queens. So I asked her "how so?" and she pointed out how I freaked out when my husband unplugged my PSP from the thing (I was listening to music on it through the tape that goes in the tape player that was connected to my PSP, you know those things you can plug into CD players in the car) and I was like "Oh yeah, I am one too at times." Then my cousin said what a good sport I am because I didn't flip out when she called me out and I said I don't understand why people must get so nasty or upset when they get called out on their irony. I heard it has to do with pride. But then she said she was just messing with me by pointing that out to me. They just didn't tell me what they were doing so that's why I flipped out.

What my cousin said was true, I did flip out over my husband unplugging my PSP and I was a drama queen over it because I got upset over him unplugging it. All he was going to do was play a song for my cousin by plugging in his PSP so she can hear it. But I was already flipping out so he plugged mine back in and then explained what he was trying to do and then he didn't even want to bother. So he just handed his PSP to her for her to hear the song.


Yeah I have always hated people doing things that interrupt my piece like if I am watching something on TV and my husband decides to mess with something behind it, if the cable box turns off because he accidentally unplugged something, I get upset. I consider that being a drama queen of the show was on TIVO I was watching or On Demand. Then I feel stupid after wards. It's not like it was recording or it was on one of the channels and now I was going to miss part of it. I felt like a b***h over the PSP thing. Just one song for crying out loud he was going to play and then plug mine back in. I had to flip out before he could explain himself.

Interesting what you say, because 1) Rats arent necessarily that dirty, unless they live in dirty places such as sewers, places that humans created.
2) Aside from monkeys, rats are one of our closest relatives genetically. One of the reasons we consider them such a pest is that they are very like humans, and live well in the places we create, therefore are competition to us.