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magz
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17 Nov 2020, 9:51 am

Fnord wrote:
If one person calls you 'ugly', then you can just laugh it off.

If two people call you 'ugly', then maybe you should check your make-up.

If three people call you 'ugly', then maybe you should wear a mask.
These words are very, very dangerous and this thinking puts you personally at risk.


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Fnord
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17 Nov 2020, 10:27 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
If one person calls you 'ugly', then you can just laugh it off.

If two people call you 'ugly', then maybe you should check your make-up.

If three people call you 'ugly', then maybe you should wear a mask.
These words are very, very dangerous and this thinking puts you personally at risk.
Is that a moderatorial judgement against me, or is it a personal observation of what I posted?

There was an old saying along similar lines that went "If someone calls you a 'Jackass', ignore them; if all your friends call you a 'Jackass', go to a mirror and check for ears and a tail; but if the entire village calls you a 'Jackass', it is time to buy a saddle."

It means that the opinions of a few people do not really matter; but that an opinion shared by all (or just the majority) should be examined.


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magz
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17 Nov 2020, 11:41 am

It's the latter.
People - even autistic people - tend to repeat the claims they hear and interpret whatever they hear by these lens.
It can result in massive waves of unsubstantiated accusations.
I think you're familiar with the phenomenon.


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Fnord
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17 Nov 2020, 11:55 am

magz wrote:
It's the latter.
Thank you for the clairification.
magz wrote:
People - even autistic people - tend to repeat the claims they hear and interpret whatever they hear by these lens.  It can result in massive waves of unsubstantiated accusations.
People -- especially autistic people -- seem to believe that what only one person or a few people may say is what everybody else believes.  It can lead to self-revulsion, presumption of hostility, and pre-emptive rejection of others.
magz wrote:
I think you're familiar with the phenomenon.
Yes, I am, and from both sides.  As a teenager, if one person called me "stupid", I would believe that everyone thought the same of me.  I used to hate myself for being "stupid", stay away from others, and I would verbally lash out at anyone who spoke with me (HE: "Hey Fnord!  What time is it?"  ME: "Time for you to go buy a new watch.  What am I, your personal timekeeper?").

Then I grew up and learned that there will always be a few jerks in every crowd, how to recognize them, how to deal with them when I could not avoid them, and how to (mostly) not be one myself -- if only I had known all of this 50+ years ago; it would have saved me a LOT of heartache.

As for being on the receiving end ... we both know that I will never again give certain individuals on WP any advice or suggestions, and for the reasons mentioned above.


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17 Nov 2020, 2:38 pm

I totally forgot about how many people can think the same of you but that doesn't make it true. It just means that is the impression you give others so I still stand by "rethink of your actions."

When I was in 4th grade and 5th, I spent a lot of time thinking about what it means to be a show off and what rude people do and how mean people act so I would know what behaviors to not do. I didn't want to give off a wrong impression of myself. If I had known I was wired differently, I may have used that as an excuse to not improve which I think too many ASD people do.

Of course my parents and other adults thought the opposite but they are adults and parents tend to think different of their own kids. Studies have shown that parents tend to be bias about their own children and they see them differently than other people do. So whatever a kid does may be "normal" to the parent but to other people it's weird and not normal.

So if people keep thinking you are racist or a fascist and you don't think you are, rethink of your choice of words and your ideologies because what you might be saying may be consistent of racism. This is no different than not doing a behavior that is perceived as rude.


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17 Nov 2020, 2:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
If one person calls you 'ugly', then you can just laugh it off.

If two people call you 'ugly', then maybe you should check your make-up.

If three people call you 'ugly', then maybe you should wear a mask.
These words are very, very dangerous and this thinking puts you personally at risk.
Is that a moderatorial judgement against me, or is it a personal observation of what I posted?

There was an old saying along similar lines that went "If someone calls you a 'Jackass', ignore them; if all your friends call you a 'Jackass', go to a mirror and check for ears and a tail; but if the entire village calls you a 'Jackass', it is time to buy a saddle."

It means that the opinions of a few people do not really matter; but that an opinion shared by all (or just the majority) should be examined.


My personal favorite is, "If you smell sh_t everywhere you go, it's time to check your shoes."


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The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Nov 2020, 3:41 pm

It is not an insult if it's earned, like for example if someone said "brown people are inferior" then yeah I will call him a fascist.

But I have no idea what you're talking about.



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17 Nov 2020, 3:46 pm

magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
The problem is, some people have difficulty with being rational/objective.
Some people seem to be consumed by their emotional needs to the point of misunderstanding/misinterpreting what is being said.
None of us is ever free of it. Even the most brilliant mind in the world does not have perfect knowledge.
Ability to realise your own biases is a rare quality, even among the most intelligent people.


My mom always said I was special. 8) :mrgreen:

I think you are reading too much into what I am saying. :wink:



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17 Nov 2020, 3:50 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I think if someone says you are one, maybe rethink of your ideologies?

I didn't see that post since I haven't been here much lately.


I am saying you are a fascist, League Girl.
Now you are obliged to re-assess your ideologies? 8O
"I don't think so, Tim." :mrgreen:

Unfounded accusations are unfounded accusations.
My calling you a fascist was said in jest, to make a point.
If you didn't simply dismiss my nonsense, I would be surprised. 8)



magz
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17 Nov 2020, 3:55 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
My personal favorite is, "If you smell sh_t everywhere you go, it's time to check your shoes."
That one is good! Rarely anyone intentionally carries sh!t on their shoes - but checking can be necessary.


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Pepe
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17 Nov 2020, 4:01 pm

magz wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I think if someone says you are one, maybe rethink of your ideologies?

My observation is, people surprisingly often jump to conclusions when assigning ideologies to others.
It's particularily problematic for those who feel general urge to ask uncomfortable questions - they typically get interpreted as opposing to whoever they talk to.


Agreed.
Asking for clarification is simply that, more often than not, from where I come from.

People who are 'challenged', and have a reasoned opinion, can simply present that argument, rather than become emotional/irrational.

Those who don't have a considered position can reflect as to why they don't, clarify in their own mind where they stand and why they believe what they are saying, and then present their POV.

All too often, I see people jumping to conclusions without due diligence. 8)



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17 Nov 2020, 4:07 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It is not an insult if it's earned, like for example if someone said "brown people are inferior" then yeah I will call him a fascist.

But I have no idea what you're talking about.


Personally I'd call that person racist, I'd wait until I heard their political views before I thought a term like fascist might apply. 8)


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17 Nov 2020, 4:24 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is recently stated WP policy that calling someone a racist is considered purely descriptive and not considered a personal attack. There are no guidelines for calling someone a fascist as far as I know.


I consider this in conflict with the general principle of saying, "what you are saying sounds racist", rather than saying "you are a racist".

To me, the latter is a personal attack, logically speaking.
The former is not and can avoid conflict.
The latter involves a moral judgment.
The former is a request for clarification.
The latter assumes the validity of the claim.
The former does not make that assumption. 8)

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Both terms can be used used in an objective way


I'm not sure it can, in this situation.
Personally, I don't think anyone, here, is unilaterally qualified.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
but both are usually used as an insult as both ways of thinking are widely considered evil and very negatively reflects on the person being described that way.


I can't think of any situation where being called a racist is a positive thing.
Being called a fascist may be less onerous, but only if someone actually embraces fascist ideology.
I don't, hence why it is offensive to me personally. 8)

ASPartOfMe wrote:
IMHO the recent clarification of policy opened up a can of worms. Fortunately, through the goodwill of members and improved moderation, the potential negative ramifications of the clarified policy have been mitigated. But IMHO the policy is a loophole through which bad things may happen.


The policy is unsound, imo.


ASPartOfMe wrote:
Policy or no policy my advice is not to call WP members "fascist" or "racist". Limit it to public figures.

Pepe is no fascist, not even close.


Lots of "brownie points" heading your way. :mrgreen:



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17 Nov 2020, 4:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I think if someone says you are one, maybe rethink of your ideologies? ...
If one person calls you 'ugly', then you can just laugh it off.

If two people call you 'ugly', then maybe you should check your make-up.

If three people call you 'ugly', then maybe you should wear a mask.


(I do not remember the exact quote ... it had something to do with donkeys and saddles ...)


If one person, who embraces partisanship, calls you a fascist, you laugh it off.
If two people, who embrace partisanship, call you a fascist, you laugh it off.
Well, I think you can see where I am going with this. 8)



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17 Nov 2020, 4:42 pm

It leads me back to the question: what is a modern "fascist"?
What beliefs are required to be seriously qualified as one?
Probably racism would be needed, or other forms of minority-hating. Strong leadership. Imperialism. Disregard for freedoms and democratic mechanisms...

...lemme see...

Putin?


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funeralxempire
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17 Nov 2020, 4:45 pm

magz wrote:
It leads me back to the question: what is a modern "fascist"?
What beliefs are required to be seriously qualified as one?
Probably racism would be needed, or other forms of minority-hating. Strong leadership. Imperialism. Disregard for freedoms and democratic mechanisms...

...lemme see...

Putin?


Nationalism would be needed since it's the core defining trait.
A reactionary platform based on a utopian misunderstanding of some past era.
Disregard for established laws and political norms.
A willingness to ignore reality when it conflicts with ideology.

Donnie Rotten's movement appears to meet most of the requirements. :nerdy:


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.