Questions about wrongplanet's mandate ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

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calandale
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11 Aug 2007, 1:50 am

I don't know, but the member's very
name is a racist comment.



Pandora
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11 Aug 2007, 3:01 am

Misogynistic comments are those that are derogatory of women or that objectify them.


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calandale
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11 Aug 2007, 3:11 am

Pandora wrote:
Misogynistic comments are those that are derogatory of women or that objectify them.


So, women aren't objects?



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11 Aug 2007, 3:25 am

calandale wrote:
Pandora wrote:
Misogynistic comments are those that are derogatory of women or that objectify them.


So, women aren't objects?


Enchanted ones, if they are. :P



calandale
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11 Aug 2007, 3:31 am

gwenevyn wrote:
calandale wrote:
Pandora wrote:
Misogynistic comments are those that are derogatory of women or that objectify them.


So, women aren't objects?


Enchanted ones, if they are. :P


More enchanting than enchanted, I'd say.



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11 Aug 2007, 3:55 am

Well it's kinda funny. Anti-Christian topics are allowed to run wild on the religion/politics/philosophy board, but I was banned for making an allegedly anti-Islam topic.

And a (former) moderator, Flagg, plainly stated that mods can ban anyone they want for any reason. The exact quote was

Quote:
Becasue the Moderation retains the right to ban as they see fit. You have no rights on a forum, they control the speech. Apparently they didn't like your speech so they exercised their right to remove you.


Now that's a funny attitude for an Aspergers forum, but I'm wondering if this mods-can-do-whatever thing is official policy around here.



calandale
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11 Aug 2007, 3:57 am

Ok, I just looked at his post,
in context. And you're painting
it in far worse light than it is.

He's trying to explain to you
the facts of a privately owned
site.

I don't necessarily agree that
this kind of attitude should be
policy, but underneath it all,
EVERY website, including I2
has limits to what they can
allow. And every site is proprietary
in nature.



Pandora
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11 Aug 2007, 5:52 am

But I think they are querying the inconsistent application of rules within the forum. It's no use having one set of official rules and one set of unofficial rules. We get that kind of ridiculous nonsense in our everyday lives and should expect more understanding on a specifically aspie forum such as this one.


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Jainaday
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11 Aug 2007, 9:36 am

Actually, there can be a lot of use to having the official rules a little different from the de facto ones. De facto rules are generally more lax than written ones (there can be legal problems if it's the other way around), allowing for some reasonable range of enforcement without having to hammer out all of the variables in precise text.

In this case, though, I personally think the rules really should be precise.


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11 Aug 2007, 9:38 am

Also, there's a serious difference between "we are all objects in the world" and "I want a piece of that ass." Not quoting from here; just pointing out the difference between objectification, and well, objectification.


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MrMark
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11 Aug 2007, 10:40 am

Catherine1551 wrote:
what is wrongplanet's mandate regarding encouraging members to challenge existing patterns of inequalities existing in our societies?

Does wrongplanet support sexist, racist , homophobic and ableist power dynamics in effect in our societies and if not what is being done to make sure members KNOW that furthering hateful stereotypes will not be tolerated?

I have found in my 2 (3? not sure anymore) days as a members that I have rarely encountered so much sexist remarks in such a short time, men posting on the woman only forum, being completely unaware and unwilling to see that they are infringing on space not open to them, men referring to women as "pieces of ass" encouraging each other in continuing the sexual objectification of all women, creating dichotomous representations of NT women as desirable (because they're seen as stupid) and Aspie women as necessarily undesirable because they're smart?

Do the adminstrators of this site realize that this actually encourages ableist stereotyping which harm all non-normative people?
which are counter-productive in a space the aim of which seems to be to foster increased self-esteem in people marginalized because of who they are? I am not only someone waiting for a diagnosis of Asperger, i have other identities, most of which are also marginalized by mainstream society; I am a woman, I am disabled and I am queer.

If I chose to continue posting on this site, will it mean I have to put up with sexist, woman-hating comments, ignorant homophobic comments, internalized hatred from people terrified to align themselves with other disabled people, and hateful racist comments, all of which can be excused because those making them have asperger's, therefore this grants them immunity to be hurtful?

Do you have a set of guidelines which the moderators follow ?
If not, why not?
Are your moderators aware of anti-oppression principles?

I understand that there are people of all lifestyle and all ages on this site and that this can make any type of "policing" of content a daunting if not impossible task.
However,
there should still be room for giving people warning that their behaviour and words are not acceptable and that precisely BECAUSE there are young people on this site , encouraging sexist behaviour by presenting it as normal , even natural, is not something you should want to sweep under the carpet.
It is NOT o.k. to encourage young men to view sex with women as an act of war
It is NOT o.k. to encourage young women to view themselves as terrain to be conquered who's only value are how closely they mirror arbitrary and harmful cannon of beauty
It is NOT o.k. to encourage young people in thinking that healthy sexuality can be found in media representations of what is 'manly' or 'feminine', according to the latest video.


if you can let me know what exactly IS in place to make sure this site is as inclusive and safe to most members possible ,and where it can be found on the site, I would greatly appreciate it.


"Wrong Planet is a web community designed for individuals (and parents of those) with Asperger's Syndrome, Autism, ADHD, and other PDDs. We provide a forum, where members can communicate with each other, an article section, where members may read and submit essays or how-to guides about various subjects, and a chatroom for real-time communication with other Aspies"

alex wrote:
===================
WrongPlanet Rules
===================


Conduct
-----------
The following activities are unacceptable on WrongPlanet (whether actual content or links to sites with the content):

1. Offensive language and comments.
This includes swearing; racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. (a) language; behaviour intended to provoke (flaming) or belittle other members or groups of members (b); violent or sexually demeaning language or images (c). It includes harassment of any sort, of other members of WP, on the forums

2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.

3. Incitement.
Inciting other members to, or encouraging them in, violent or aggressive behavior, suicide, racism, sexism, etc., or other behaviour which contravenes these guidelines.

4. Other inappropriate content and behavior.
This includes copyrighted material, serial codes, and posts made to promote a website, group or product, particularly if made repeatedly and without other participation in the WP community (spamming). This also includes discussion of locked topics, discussion of banned members and why they were banned and anything else that purposely causes conflict with other members.


http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... ic&t=39422


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greenblue
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11 Aug 2007, 5:10 pm

Pandora wrote:
Misogynistic comments are those that are derogatory of women or that objectify them.

I thought the definition of Misogyny was "Hate for women", yeah, some comments are about objectifying and derogatory, I believe it might be about insecurity and power, wanting to feel superior perhaps, also it could be due to plain ignorance and other reasons, they are wrong of course, but not exactly Hate. Wouldn't the correct term for those comments be "Male sexism" instead?


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11 Aug 2007, 8:23 pm

The question, Mr. Mark, is; according to WP, what constitutes a sexist comment?

The following are from Intercourse and Intelligence, the thread I've been (about) the most active on.

Speaking from a male standpoint, it seems like women are getting pregnant at younger ages; therefore, they must have the urge to lose to virginity by age 13. Of course, the guys with the lower IQs (and higher emotions and tempers) are only too happy to oblige. Then the slippery slope starts towards early marriage, battered spouses, high divorce rates, and it's all because stupidity has been easier to breed since the beginning of time! The thought of sex and relationships makes me disgusted.

This quote sums it up:

Duckman: Boo-freaking-hoo. Like I am supposed to take women and how they feel seriously? You want to be accepted for your minds but you throw a hissy fit royalé if someone isn't saying you look great 30 hours a day. You say you want a nice guy but you only give it up to the creeps. You get to stay home, not go to war, live longer, and have sex whenever you want! So remind me again what exactly is there to complain about!



And


"However, if you think it's hard to get a date as a "smart" guy, please consider that there is equal trouble finding a decent one as a "brainiac" girl. It is far less socially acceptable to be literate, numerate, or rational as a woman than as a man."

If you're a hot woman no one will care. Actually you could a a serial killer and if you're a hot woman no one would care... probably.


And

Secondly, the 1960's happened and you're equal now: it's time to suck it up and take it like a man.

And

Oh look, feminist shaming language! Everyone saw this coming right? As soon as I saw "rational female" I could smell the Andrea Dworkin perfume. But I'll let hocky-guy fight this one...

And

Over-application of not using your brain, my dear. (to me)

And

Bull to the femnist sh**. The feminists cry about thier made up rape numbers. I'll trust the FBI instead, thanks.

And

Alicorn wrote:
Jainaday wrote:
The feminist movement has had a lot of unfortunate fallout.


Bill Maher on Feminism

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z8j4QJ0oiY[/youtube]


And

It is female bias. Marriage is the "I win" button for women in today's America. Women press it and they get to legally rape their spouse in divorce court.

And, in reference to the Maher clip

Great clip, by the way. So much truth in that. (Curious why it's now missing. ??? I guess the feminist elite silenced it? If so, no doubt because it didn't meet their definition of truth: "feel good".)

And, as a sometime waitress with no college diploma, a personal favorite

Well, until then we'll probably have a lot of little princesses who have lofty highschool deplomas and restaurant jobs leaving guys who care about em because they wake up with a whim that they could do better. We're stunting their mental growth by making the world that easy on them and we're paying the price, I hardly know anyone with a working relationship anymore and part of the problem is it has to be two people willing to work at it not just one.


I've tried to give mitigating context along with.


I'd like to be clear: I am not recommending that such posts of these be removed, or not allowed. However, since technically- if they do constitute sexist remarks- they aren't permitted, one must assume that, in that case, WP administration doesn't care at all about enforcing this rule.

From another angle-
When you make a rule that says sexist comments are banned, and say you are enforcing it, and then don't remove comments like this, you are effectively saying that such comments are not sexist.

If that is a statement WP administration wishes to make, so be it.

If not. . . please say so.


Reading remarks such as these in such overwhelming and unbroken quantity (as was in the first part of the cited thread) feels like being slammed into a wall of hatred.

I'm aware that a similar collection of anti-male quotes might be easily be assembled; I'm not asking that the rules treat unequally. I'm asking that they be better defined, and possibly that there also be posted an official WP stance on borderline misogynist or sexist statements which are tolerated for the sake of free speech. . .

. . . these don't seem terribly borderline to me.


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calandale
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11 Aug 2007, 8:39 pm

Oh please. If one couldn't make these kind
of statements, this site would whither on
the vine.

Seriously, the point is that some members think
in these ways. If all you want to do is silence these
voices, then you can't even combat them. Much less
ever get an understanding of where they come from.



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11 Aug 2007, 9:26 pm

Okay, I'm going to use racism as an example to try to help clarify. "I'm racist. I don't like black people," is acceptable because to person is talking about themselves and their feelings toward a group without referring to the group in a derogatory or disparaging manner. "n****rs," "Lynch 'em," and "White people got to stick together," are not acceptable. The first is name calling, the second is incitement, and the third is inflammatory (and incidentally appeared recently on this site and was removed.)
Now a lot of the stuff that has been cited here is not so clear-cut. If I received a specific complaint about one of these posts, I would review the post and, if it did not appear clear-cut to me, I would consult the other mods.
The main point that I was trying to make is that apparently no one has felt strongly enough about any of these posts to PM me, so naturally I have taken no action. Due to the nature of my impairment and the new, unwritten, ambiguous rules, and also due to the backlash from a vocal segment of the membership because of recent enforcement of the written rules, I generally do not act if no one complains.


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11 Aug 2007, 10:12 pm

calandale wrote:
Oh please. If one couldn't make these kind
of statements, this site would whither on
the vine.

Seriously, the point is that some members think
in these ways. If all you want to do is silence these
voices, then you can't even combat them. Much less
ever get an understanding of where they come from.




'd like to be clear: I am not recommending that such posts of these be removed, or not allowed. However, since technically- if they do constitute sexist remarks- they aren't permitted, one must assume that, in that case, WP administration doesn't care at all about enforcing this rule.

From another angle-
When you make a rule that says sexist comments are banned, and say you are enforcing it, and then don't remove comments like this, you are effectively saying that such comments are not sexist.

If that is a statement WP administration wishes to make, so be it.

If not. . . please say so.


I'm aware that a similar collection of anti-male quotes might be easily be assembled; I'm not asking that the rules treat unequally. I'm asking that they be better defined, and possibly that there also be posted an official WP stance on borderline misogynist or sexist statements which are tolerated for the sake of free speech. . .




One last clarification- to make sure I understand the answer I'm receiving. It sounds like:
The posted rules will be enforced when such action is supported in some measure by both popular demand and private request.

It's not unreasonable, if that's the policy; it's just that it would be nice- (if that is the policy) - if that were the stated policy as well.



And, incidentally, no one is saying "I'm a misogynist, I hate women." They say

Dumb f***ing b***h gives me her f***ing email adress. As soon as I add her and talk to her on MSN, she blocks my ass! She's like..."do you have any pics?" Yeah, I send them. She blocks me. She should have read my f***ing profile! I had f***ing pics, what is this girl...stupid?!

or

Boo-freaking-hoo. Like I am supposed to take women and how they feel seriously?

Sometimes they even say these things in much more diplomatic ways. . .

But somehow the message comes through.


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