Can we stop the vaccine crap

Post Reply New Topic

I do not begrudge anyone their opinion, even when it runs counter to established facts.

However, I have begun to feel (there's that word again) as if my own opinions are devalued, simply because I insist on basing them on external reality, rather than what I might wish were true. Suddenly, I'm one of the "sheeple", a "shill for Big Pharma" who's been "drinking the Kool-Aid", for daring to disagree with their precious intuitions. After all, isn't someone's intuition about (in this instance) the "true cause" of autism ever so much more valid than those silly scientist guys, always demanding verification and reproducible experiments, instead of just trusting in the power of Spirit?

And it seems as if every time I raise those peer-reviewed studies in a thread, a new thread is created that completely ignores points raised in the previous one.

Who's getting censored here?

Why do I have the feeling that if I were agreeing with your opinion, you'd be all "You GO girl!"

Probably because you don't know her that well.

Funny that the term "religiously" was used. People discuss their religious beliefs as if they were facts. How is that all that different? Would you prefer that those discussions also be censored, since people might be stating things as fact that you may not agree with?

Yes, the religion example could be refuted by saying that all positions are beliefs. That's not what I'm getting at.

If people have irrefutable evidence against something that others have stated as if it were fact, they should post that evidence. Even when confronted with this evidence, some people might not change their positions, possibly not at all, but for every person that posts, there are many more that don't.

Shadexiii, friend, that's exactly what I've done. I have posted links to studies disproving a variety of such assertions (on the vaccine front, others have done so, as well). The citations are either roundly ignored, denounced as "Big Pharma" propoganda, or "refuted" by claims of counterstudies "proving" the original assertion (which, despite polite request, are never cited in their turn - or, on the rare occasion they are cited, are easily shown to be riddled with procedural errors, written by heavily-biased non-researchers [often lawyers or parents involved in anti-vaccine lawsuits], and published straight to the Internet, without even a hint of peer review. When the problems are mentioned, either these statements are ignored, or the critic is again "refuted" by being accused of being "in Big Pharma's pocket").

It becomes very difficult to carry on a conversation with people who refuse to agree to even so simple a thing as a definition of what a "fact" is. The continued starting of such threads, with the obvious intent of flaming anyone who dares disagree with them, seems to clutter WP beyond reason of late. I, for one, would welcome a toning-down of the rhetoric. (I'd also like to see people who have no understanding of statistics or genetics stop using the word "outlier", but that's another matter.)

That's my point. Post your evidence. Do what you can reasonably do to prove them wrong. Then just let it go. Let your proof speak for itself. No, they may not accept it. They may use ridiculous means to try and refute it. That happens everywhere, every day.

If a new thread is started, don't bother re-posting what has already been posted. Just tell them that that discussion is already going on in one of the other threads. If you try to argue with someone like that, it isn't going to do any good, even if you can prove them wrong. So don't argue. Someone has to stop for it to stop, and it won't be them. IF they are acting like trolls, treat them like trolls. Don't feed them.

I've asked the moderation team for opinions.

well, it is good to read other views, you can learn from things you didn't even imagined before, some might be laughable to you, some might be controversial and surprising, but consider this, not all people have the same beliefs, because there are a lot of things that influences your thinking and philosophy, by observing some people I can say that life experiences and the environment people grow up, all that, shape the way of thinking and that is why many people see things differently. That has a lot to do with why you find different beliefs and that is why you would even find radical thinking and behaviour.

Just my two pitiful American cents...

I've begun to avoid certain forums because I know my brain will "splode" if I read the threads posted. I can't stand them, but but but...people are entitled to be as stupid as they want...

The other thing I wonder is if this is a type of perseveration--that neurological catch in an Aspie's brain that just won't let it go. I've seen some dietary practices advocated that I know are dangerous as hell for certain types of people, especially with certain kinds of malabsorbtion issues and anemia. I'll call bs on that, but that's all I can do.

Are these antivax posters pretty young? If I understand right, one of them is going through some of these woowoo treatments and is like fifteen, which, well a normal fifteen year old is irritating enough, but an Aspie teen is like dealing with a broken record, or a kid with a ratty teddy that needs washing. I have one of those kids. Oy, what a booger he is...

That's the other thing. The anonymity of posters gives them balls they have no right to, and sometimes I think they do it for emotional reasons, and it's a safe outlet, though my bp don't like it.

I don't know. This is a problem, and while I don't like censorship, I also don't want people thinking this crap is viable, when the best studies (over and over, ad nauseum) show altie therapies do nothing or can be down right dangerous. Some of the people advocating some of these "treatments" seem to have other issues as well: problems with magical belief, critical thinking, and maturity. Makes me thinks mental health issues, or extreme youth.

Don't know. I would like to share information and discuss new potential therapies, but not if it devolves into brouhahas over Big Pharma and woowoo.

Metta, Rjaye.

I think those debates should be held to a minimum, ie, one thread on the topic should be enough and this thread should be carefully monitored because as with all threads and especially those pertaining to controversial issues, it presents the possibility of turning into a flame war if people aren't respectful.

In the past, there has been a lot of problems with this kind of thing happening in the PPR (politics, philosophy and religion) forum where most people - from both sides of debates, admittedly - were not listening to each other. Name calling was happening, threads had to be shut down, people banned and that whole section of the forum was basically a nightmare to moderate... and to think that I willingly agreed when asked by Vivi...

a lot of people are real invested in their way of thinking. Sometimes who they are as a person is all tied up in that certain obsessive need to find something to blame the dastardly 'other' as perpetrator of their condition. Other wise they would have been what others had imagined them to be, and now look, the _______________ has taken their 'normalness' away.
Beware! it is still working it's evil even now in your own self.

I think one or two threads at a time. Otherwise it's just prostelitizing.

Merle

Yeah, like the gluten/casein free forum. While it's not something I'm convinced of, it's set up in such a way people know what it is, where it is, and to participate or not. Then we don't have bunches of stuff cropping up in surprising places (ohh, sound like crabs or something).

That "invested" in one's thinking...that's a challenge for me sometimes. I have to just back off and realize that without face to face, even Aspie, a whole part of the conversation is missing, so things get out of hand easily. Let it go.

R.

My Aspergers was caused by my mom forcing me to eat my vegtables before desert.

an attempt to redirect frusteration through sarcasm

So that's where I put my dork post.

I am SO glad I found this.... it has restored my much dented faith in sanity.

THANK YOU.