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MrMark
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10 Dec 2008, 6:14 pm

This is a free service. It is also private property. The rules were established by the owner. Perhaps you'd like to set up your own site. Others have.


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BlackjackGabbiani
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10 Dec 2008, 6:16 pm

It takes very little time to explore a site such as this, especially with speedy internet.

Honestly, I don't see why we should censor ourselves ESPECIALLY on a support site. Isn't support about openness and honesty? And that includes language we use naturally rather than conforming to some arbitrary standard.

I belong to another board, similar to the one I work on but it has a swear filter. People bring up all the time how it's a horrible thing to have, especially since the board has a writing area. And the guy who runs it is derided by his staff because he won't get rid of it.
This is, of course, another board aimed at younger people, with several of the mods being teens themselves.

And honestly, I know firsthand that it's possible to have community *with* an unedited vocabulary. My site has never once got in trouble for anything like that--heck, my site's never gotten in trouble period save for when we were late on our server payment and got bounced, but that was unrelated to any content.



Fnord
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10 Dec 2008, 6:23 pm

BlackjackGabbiani wrote:
Honestly, I don't see why we should censor ourselves ESPECIALLY on a support site. Isn't support about openness and honesty?

Because:

1) You are a guest here.
2) There are rules here against profanity.
3) Guests who expect to remain as guests obey the rules.
4) Guests who ignore the rules may be invited to leave.

There. Simple enough for even our most obtuse members.

I've also learned the hard way that complete openness and absolute honesty by just one person can make this website a hostile environment for everyone, and that those who insist on being that one person eventually end up on the business end of a banhammer.


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MrMark
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10 Dec 2008, 6:33 pm

Generally, people don't appreciate it when you come into their house and start criticizing. Since we're autistic too, we're a little more forgiving about that sort of thing.


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claire-333
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10 Dec 2008, 6:45 pm

I do not even really curse much in real life. I think alternatives are usually much funnier. I especially like...What the crap? he he...what the crap...



makuranososhi
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10 Dec 2008, 6:46 pm

BlackjackGabbiani wrote:
It takes very little time to explore a site such as this, especially with speedy internet.

Honestly, I don't see why we should censor ourselves ESPECIALLY on a support site. Isn't support about openness and honesty? And that includes language we use naturally rather than conforming to some arbitrary standard.

I belong to another board, similar to the one I work on but it has a swear filter. People bring up all the time how it's a horrible thing to have, especially since the board has a writing area. And the guy who runs it is derided by his staff because he won't get rid of it.
This is, of course, another board aimed at younger people, with several of the mods being teens themselves.

And honestly, I know firsthand that it's possible to have community *with* an unedited vocabulary. My site has never once got in trouble for anything like that--heck, my site's never gotten in trouble period save for when we were late on our server payment and got bounced, but that was unrelated to any content.


Truly exploring a site like this is not a short trip. As a support site, there is a need to be sensitive - not to provide another stomping ground for raw expression. There are many facilities available for such discussion, and suggest that might be a better fit for you. There hasn't been a complaint from a standing member regarding this issue; those who have spoken here are in disagreement with your opinion. You are entitled to it, and welcome to ask questions, but to presume what is the best interests of an established community is relatively absurd in my mind. It isn't an arbitrary standard, it was chosen by those who operate this site, which is their right to do so. By minimizing the amount of inflammatory material, it opens the door for those who would be uncomfortable otherwise - there are a good number of sites, even on this specific topic, which do provide the sort of free-reign that you describe... again, if you are uncomfortable with controlling your vocabulary, there are options out there for you.

Is it possible? Yes. But in this situation, on this site - profanity is not allowed. The intent is to create a space - that space is not going to conform to your standards unless you build your own.


M.


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Javid
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10 Dec 2008, 9:28 pm

Fnord wrote:
Proper communication does not rely on profanity, but in the creative use of a non-profane vocabulary.


Neither is correct - it relies on the creative use of the entire, unfettered vocabulary.

Fnord wrote:
I am a writer - a published writer - and I see profane language as the final refuge of the uncreative mind, such as those comedians and rappers who string a series of epithets together and call it "humor" or "art."


Your linguistic bigotry is saddening.


MrMark wrote:
This is a free service. It is also private property. The rules were established by the owner. Perhaps you'd like to set up your own site. Others have.


Heil.


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CanyonWind
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10 Dec 2008, 9:37 pm

Only vaguely related to the topic, and not something I'd bother worrying about, but I find it strange that "aspie" comes up as a spelling error on wrongplanet.


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makuranososhi
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10 Dec 2008, 9:55 pm

Javid wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Proper communication does not rely on profanity, but in the creative use of a non-profane vocabulary.


Neither is correct - it relies on the creative use of the entire, unfettered vocabulary.

Fnord wrote:
I am a writer - a published writer - and I see profane language as the final refuge of the uncreative mind, such as those comedians and rappers who string a series of epithets together and call it "humor" or "art."


Your linguistic bigotry is saddening.


MrMark wrote:
This is a free service. It is also private property. The rules were established by the owner. Perhaps you'd like to set up your own site. Others have.


Heil.


While I agree that profanity is not the last refuge of the mediocre writer, it is also something which is most useful when used sparingly and for great effect. I have to ask, Fnord - what are your thoughts on Carlin, then?

The implication in your final response is disappointing and completely off the mark; at best, it's an intellectual HOA, not the Gestapo. And like an HOA, you agree to it when you buy the house... which is why I won't buy in an HOA neighborhood, but that's another story. You choose to be here, then you accept the terms and conditions that come with it - and like an HOA, if you leave your garbage out, you'll get a notice.


M.


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Fnord
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10 Dec 2008, 9:59 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
While I agree that profanity is not the last refuge of the mediocre writer, it is also something which is most useful when used sparingly and for great effect. I have to ask, Fnord - what are your thoughts on Carlin, then?

More of a social philosopher than a comedian. A hundred years from now, he may be looked at in the same way that we now look at Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche - minus the syphillus, the dementia, and the drug addictions, of course.


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makuranososhi
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10 Dec 2008, 10:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
While I agree that profanity is not the last refuge of the mediocre writer, it is also something which is most useful when used sparingly and for great effect. I have to ask, Fnord - what are your thoughts on Carlin, then?

More of a social philosopher than a comedian. A hundred years from now, he may be looked at in the same way that we now look at Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche - minus the syphillus, the dementia, and the drug addictions, of course.


Interesting perspective; I like it.


M.


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greenblue
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10 Dec 2008, 10:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
(Wait ... is this thread in The Haven? No? Then 'Submit' it is!)

lol, nope, this isn't the Haven forum.

Fnord wrote:
Every thought is valid, each within its own context. History's greatest lyricists, poets, and writers produced their best works without even a single profane word, yet the world is overrun with talentless hacks insisting that profanity is necessary for the consumate expression of their art. This is unfortunate, as it encourages those whose sole talent is the utterance of Carlin's "Seven Words You Can't Say On Television" at every opportunity, and solely for the shock value it imparts to their sorry excuses for "performance."

Profanity is not necessary, unless a person can think of nothing else to say.

I have to say, I agree with this.


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BlackjackGabbiani
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11 Dec 2008, 3:57 am

By that, though, no word is necessary unless the person can think of no other word. "Profanity" is an artificial construct. Why is it some words are forbidden while other words meaning the same thing are said with ease? It's lunacy, frankly.


As for "coming in and complaining", would you rather I wait a week to say anything? Because that makes no sense either--why not bring it up the moment you notice it? Be it immediately or after three months. The words and thoughts will be the same either way.



oblio
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11 Dec 2008, 7:19 am

BlackjackGabbiani wrote:
All words are used to convey thoughts, and

I fail to see how thoughts professed using words of varying strengths are valid.


i am still working on this one, the second clause of this complex sentence that is....

[although..: are single words 'thoughts'...?]

[I] [fail to see]
[[how are X valid]]
X = [thoughts professed]
[using words of varying strengths]

i think i will be working on this one for time to come...

i knew language is but grammatically structured nonsense,
i do however enjoy the occasional syntactical clarity


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makuranososhi
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11 Dec 2008, 11:36 am

BlackjackGabbiani wrote:
By that, though, no word is necessary unless the person can think of no other word. "Profanity" is an artificial construct. Why is it some words are forbidden while other words meaning the same thing are said with ease? It's lunacy, frankly.


As for "coming in and complaining", would you rather I wait a week to say anything? Because that makes no sense either--why not bring it up the moment you notice it? Be it immediately or after three months. The words and thoughts will be the same either way.


Some words have deeper meanings to some; if you cannot respect that, then you have a decision to make. Humans are arbitrary creatures; it isn't lunacy, but choice.

It isn't a matter of time, it's a matter of involvement. With 24 posts under your belt, you have barely begun to scratch the surface of interacting with the membership here, and without experience your complaint doesn't register strongly with me. You're welcome to complain now, but there I strongly doubt that you will find the rules changing on the basis of a single complaint from someone who has yet to involve themselves and see how the community here functions before deciding that the existing rules are 'lunacy'. Thanks for the feedback, and hope you are able to find a way to resolve your issues.


M.


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12 Dec 2008, 12:20 am

great topic, great posts,

damn, but I love this place!

Merle


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