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Making it Better: The future of WP

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Pepe
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22 Aug 2020, 11:25 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
For a paralell pile of conflicting narratives, just look at the circus surrounding hydroxocloroquine.


It turned political.
Because Trump was trumpeting on about it, the left wouldn't take it seriously.
Recent studies have shown it is very effective in combination with zinc and a milder dosage.

Seriously, political interference is and has been skrewing us for a very long time. :roll:



Pepe
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22 Aug 2020, 11:31 pm

League_Girl wrote:
If our country collapse, it will affect other countries as well.


If America collapses, Australia is fracked when the ccp comes knocking at our door.
We have seen it before in Europe in the 1930s.



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22 Aug 2020, 11:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
America seems to be the car engine or the car battery or car gasoline of the world. If our country collapse, it will affect other countries as well. If our country economy suffers, it affects other countries as well. So that is why other countries are focused on American politics. When I went to EU in 2004, I was surprised how there was so much American news in their media. The focus was on our president and the war.

But here to the US, we barely hear about other countries and their politics. :scratch:


Try visiting Canada. At least Europe has centuries of their own cultures and an ocean. Living in Canada you near about American issues at least as much as Canadian issues, not to mention how often the two are intertwined.



When I was in Canada, I was looking for the restrooms and was wondering why this restaurant didn't have any. Then I decided to try the washrooms and there they were. :lol:

When I also saw the speed limit signs, I thought the speed limit was 80 mph. 8O But luckily I was 12 so I wasn't driving. I told my dad it was 80 and was shocked that it said we can speed and my dad said "Oh that's kilometres, it does not actually say you go 80 on the road."


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22 Aug 2020, 11:35 pm

Brictoria wrote:
alex wrote:
People in america are marching with confederate flags and saying they're not white supremacists but it's literally what the flag stands for. It stands for the nation created by traitors who seceded from the union because they wanted to be allowed to own black people as slaves.

So it's pretty clear that this is nothing like McCarthyism where people were just accused of being secret communist sympathizers. People are literally out in the streets carrying flags that stand for these things...


And yet on this site, people are being labelled "white supremecist" for saying something another member does not agree with - no flags waved, no explanation provided - just a pavlovian "you're a [white supremecist\racist\bigot\...]" in responce to something that they disagree with - And this has been ongoing here for months, leading to many members leaving, and the impression any potential member of the site would have of this being a place where diversity of thought was not wanted, and only those who held certain beliefs were wanted.

If what you want is a site where only people who hold left algned views are welcome, the site is well on the way there, as anyone with a centrist or right-wing view are certainly being made to feel unwanted here.


Are you aware of what happened during mccarthyism? Because it sounds like you're not. People were not just accused of being secret communist sympathizers. They were arrested and subpoenaed under mere suspicion of socialist beliefs. It was literally a witch hunt. They were made to testify in congress and attacked by the HUAA. And most of those people still didn't leave.

if people are being attacked here for no reason, please report it. Spreading false lies about someone who didn't even share a white supremacist belief should not be tolerated and I personally haven't seen that but if it's happening please report it.


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funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2020, 11:37 pm

sly279 wrote:
alex wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Except people here on wp were litterally accused of being white supremist sympathizers


While expressing their sympathy for those guys Alex was describing.




It's not being against rioting or killing people, it's for being for 3%ers, Proud Boys and the other groups marching with white supremacist symbols, espousing WS/WN ideology and generally trying to intimidate those who disagree with those positions.

Part of what makes it distressing to see posters who are generally perceived as decent and rational espousing those positions is that it makes it feel as though it's becoming normalized and when you frame it like you are you are actively normalizing it. That's why I used the phrase when you lay with dogs you catch fleas Sly. If that's the source of the feud between us I have to stand by it, and I'm sorry for that. You can walk back from supporting those guys but I can't walk back from calling it what it is.


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There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning. — Warren Buffett


Last edited by funeralxempire on 22 Aug 2020, 11:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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22 Aug 2020, 11:39 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
On a related issue, something else that concerns me is that some of the worst behaviours in here have been posted in the past on ableist sites like Heartless Asperger's etc to show how bad autistic people are "straight from the horse's mouth". I find this very disturbing because a handful of people who act in a selfish manner can't seem to understand that they can affect all of us, including Alex who's a public figure.


<ding ding ding>
We have a winner! :mrgreen:



Brictoria
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22 Aug 2020, 11:40 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
alex wrote:
People in america are marching with confederate flags and saying they're not white supremacists but it's literally what the flag stands for. It stands for the nation created by traitors who seceded from the union because they wanted to be allowed to own black people as slaves.

So it's pretty clear that this is nothing like McCarthyism where people were just accused of being secret communist sympathizers. People are literally out in the streets carrying flags that stand for these things...


And yet on this site, people are being labelled "white supremecist" for saying something another member does not agree with - no flags waved, no explanation provided - just a pavlovian "you're a [white supremecist\racist\bigot\...]" in responce to something that they disagree with - And this has been ongoing here for months, leading to many members leaving, and the impression any potential member of the site would have of this being a place where diversity of thought was not wanted, and only those who held certain beliefs were wanted.


If you're expressing sympathy for the guys with the flags you don't need a flag of your own and I don't need to explain that to you 30 times before you complain about a personal attack and try to have me banned.

Seriously, you don't get to treat me speaking the literal truth as a personal attack because you don't like the truth.


And yet, even when I haven't expressed sympathy for them, this sort of response still happens...

And this is what anyone on the site with a view that differs from those on the left (or who tries to clarify details of some issue) experiences, and has been experiencing for many months...What those on the left believe is "the literal truth", and any other opinion (and those who hold them) must be removed as a "heresy".



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22 Aug 2020, 11:41 pm

Teach51 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Teach51 wrote:

We could issue everyone with pepper spray to be on the safe side before they enter PP&R and News &Current Events it would have helped me when I wandered in innocently on my first day and was pulverised within moments. :lol:



Or, we could enforce the rules so that everyone can participate. :chin:
Heated debate about a topic is great, but there'8s no reason why members should be attacked or subject to lies.
It's not OK to say this is acceptable in PPR, or that we should only join if we're willing to forgo our rights.


Absolutely, ideally respect should be maintained for all points of view and no personal insults or slurs or derogatory labelling should be allowed. I agree if it would be possible in WP's present climate. I don't think it will be easy.


Could I suggest we take "The Racist Card" out of the deck? :chin:



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22 Aug 2020, 11:42 pm

sly279 wrote:
alex wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Except people here on wp were litterally accused of being white supremist sympathizers


While expressing their sympathy for those guys Alex was describing.



Being against rioting and killing people means I’m a white supremacist, if that’s what you think then i dont know what to say.



Are you saying you did support unite the right or are you saying something else?


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22 Aug 2020, 11:48 pm

Pepe wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Teach51 wrote:

We could issue everyone with pepper spray to be on the safe side before they enter PP&R and News &Current Events it would have helped me when I wandered in innocently on my first day and was pulverised within moments. :lol:



Or, we could enforce the rules so that everyone can participate. :chin:
Heated debate about a topic is great, but there'8s no reason why members should be attacked or subject to lies.
It's not OK to say this is acceptable in PPR, or that we should only join if we're willing to forgo our rights.


Absolutely, ideally respect should be maintained for all points of view and no personal insults or slurs or derogatory labelling should be allowed. I agree if it would be possible in WP's present climate. I don't think it will be easy.


Could I suggest we take "The Racist Card" out of the deck? :chin:


So that we can't call it what it is? :?

I thought facts don't care about feelings.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning. — Warren Buffett


funeralxempire
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22 Aug 2020, 11:51 pm

Brictoria wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
alex wrote:
People in america are marching with confederate flags and saying they're not white supremacists but it's literally what the flag stands for. It stands for the nation created by traitors who seceded from the union because they wanted to be allowed to own black people as slaves.

So it's pretty clear that this is nothing like McCarthyism where people were just accused of being secret communist sympathizers. People are literally out in the streets carrying flags that stand for these things...


And yet on this site, people are being labelled "white supremecist" for saying something another member does not agree with - no flags waved, no explanation provided - just a pavlovian "you're a [white supremecist\racist\bigot\...]" in responce to something that they disagree with - And this has been ongoing here for months, leading to many members leaving, and the impression any potential member of the site would have of this being a place where diversity of thought was not wanted, and only those who held certain beliefs were wanted.


If you're expressing sympathy for the guys with the flags you don't need a flag of your own and I don't need to explain that to you 30 times before you complain about a personal attack and try to have me banned.

Seriously, you don't get to treat me speaking the literal truth as a personal attack because you don't like the truth.


And yet, even when I haven't expressed sympathy for them, this sort of response still happens...

And this is what anyone on the site with a view that differs from those on the left (or who tries to clarify details of some issue) experiences, and has been experiencing for many months...What those on the left believe is "the literal truth", and any other opinion (and those who hold them) must be removed as a "heresy".


If a matter is objective it's unreasonable to insist 'it's objective truth because the left agrees with it'; when it's more a matter of the left has conceded it because it's objective truth. There's plenty of cases where 'the left' has been on the wrong side of issues, or most of 'the left' has been, but when a matter has an objectively true position it ceases to have a political value, there's reality and there's not.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning. — Warren Buffett


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22 Aug 2020, 11:51 pm

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=388536

Is this the thread that has everyone so riled up?



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22 Aug 2020, 11:56 pm

Feyokien wrote:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=388536

Is this the thread that has everyone so riled up?


There's likely more than one, this has been a point of contention for years, even in the era BT. :lol:


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning. — Warren Buffett


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23 Aug 2020, 12:02 am

Feyokien wrote:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=388536

Is this the thread that has everyone so riled up?


I hadn't seen that but it does appear pretty damning. I also looked through sly's history and just scrolling through the first few pages, saw he even used the N word in this thread (although misspelled so it slipped through the filters).

This is pretty damning and now I feel sort of silly for engaging with him when it's pretty evident that there's no question that he's racist. And this is not an insult, I'm just saying that when you're not black, using the N word is generally universally seen as racist.


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23 Aug 2020, 12:05 am

League_Girl wrote:

Nope, they can be shunned and I am all for ignoring someone who has harmful beliefs. I liked when racists stayed hidden, I want to go back to that again. If we don't call them out, it gets normalized and they think their beliefs are okay because everyone is accepting them and acting like those are just opinions and it reinforces their behavior in expressing it because they think it's acceptable.


What do they say when you straight out ask them if they think their "race" is superior to others?
If they say "Yes".
Ask them if they are willing to accept they are racist by definition:

Quote:
noun: racist; plural noun: racists

a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.



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23 Aug 2020, 12:06 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=388536

Is this the thread that has everyone so riled up?


There's likely more than one, this has been a point of contention for years, even in the era BT. :lol:


BT = Before Trump I assume?

Has Sly ever actually supported white nationalist groups verbally? Are his responses meant as a critique to how some people perceive 'the Left' to be pure.

Sly I think this would be a good time to explain your point of view carefully and calmly as you can.