Making it Better: The future of WP

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Feyokien
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02 Aug 2020, 3:08 pm

hurtloam wrote:

Unlike my "burn it to the ground" mentality.

I couldn't help but think of this:

Mountain Goat
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02 Aug 2020, 3:15 pm

Jakki wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Jakki wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Amity wrote:

... Throwing Fnord under the bus will just start a witch hunt mentality and I'm not supporting that, it distracts from the core issue regarding moderation...

I suspect that being "thrown under the bus" has more to do with a specific, yet unnamed disagreement than with any general "attitude" on my part. Assume for the moment that I once tangled with a Trump supporter whose claims regarding his/her hero I have easily refuted. Such a person -- figuratively walking in the footsteps of President Trump -- might engage in some very Trump-like acts of false accusation and a general smear campaign against me. No, I am not saying that this is specifically what is happening; but the overall form somehow seems to "fit the pattern" (a term used by some to describe my behavior). Anyway ... this latest s***tstorm seems to be dissipating; soon, everything on WP will be back to "normal".

which bus just btw ..... i want to watch

The bus labeled "Public Opinion" and "When you cannot refute the message, attack the messenger". Again, this is just a suspicion, and no-one should ever be deemed guilty because of mere suspicion.

Now feel obliged to step in here and say something about this public opinion thing . even though i might cut ff my nose to spite my face , and this is not btw
a effort to support Fnord . i believe he is quite able to do this on his own.
Have found he can be curt at times even qute direct . Pointed , but without
him the planet my be losing a valuable point of veiw brought to some topics .
He often has brought contrast into some of the threads here , At least ones in which i have engaged in . but due to my own limitations ave not always been able to follow , near as many threads as i would like. So cannot speak to every experience everyone might have had with him

I actually agree because though sometimes the reply can be a little too direct, it does make me think and consider all aspects of any given subject.
I am very indirect, and I find it hard to say things without going off on multiple tangents (Which I have realized that I do to prevent my brain hitting walls and my thoughts just clamming up and freezing mid sentence. By continually changing my thoughts and going off on tangents I am able to avoid these brain freeze walls.
Anyway. Fnord. I appreciate your input. You are a little too direct foe some but to have you here is a blessing. It gives a balance. (I feel that we do need everyone to contribute). I also feel that we are all here due to either struggling with, or supporting, or finding out about autism and the various ways in which it effects people, and so we need to come together and we need to share our experiences from all perspectives. So the traits I have and the way they effect me (Even if I am not found to be on the spectrum when I am assessed) will mean and help someone somewhere, and likewize... Everyone else can share their experiences and also others can learn from them. In this way we need each other.

In regards to politics... It is good to have the freedom to express oneself in a political way. Politicians themselves need the opposition parties to create a balance. Without the opposition this world would be a crazy place!

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TheRobotLives
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02 Aug 2020, 3:33 pm

Joe90 wrote:

I bet no-one will notice my post but here goes...

I've been here for over 10 years and have made thousands of posts, and I can safely say that I have not experienced much bullying at all. So I fail to understand what people mean by "lots of bullying goes on here". I figure most of the bullying goes on in places like the PPR and L&D the most, which are two sections that I tend to avoid.

I notice you post a lot in "General Forum" and make "I am hurting" or "I can sympathize with hurt" posts.

Maybe when someone is hurting, then they're super-sensitive, and words are mistaken for abuse.

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02 Aug 2020, 3:44 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:

Joe90 wrote:

it took me a while to learn sometimes people just want emotional support, they don't want to hear any solutions to their problems. When people are giving you solutions, it seems like they don't have any empathy so I have learned to keep my mouth shut and say nothing. If someone rants, most likely they are not looking for a solution to their problem and they only want people to empathize.

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Fnord
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02 Aug 2020, 4:18 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:

... Anyway. Fnord. I appreciate your input. You are a little too direct for some but to have you here is a blessing. It gives a balance. (I feel that we do need everyone to contribute) ... Politicians themselves need the opposition parties to create a balance. Without the opposition this world would be a crazy place!

Thanks, MG! Your input is greatly appreciated.

While I may not always strive for "balance", I do try to present "The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". Sometimes the truth conflicts with another person's beliefs, and when that person's identity is based on those beliefs, that's when all Hell busts loose -- they feel attacked because their precious beliefs have been revealed as mere wishful thinking (or abject pessimism), so they go on a scorched-Earth offensive against anyone who would dare impugn their personal realities.

Were you here when Mr. Trump's first year in office? Things really got wild here during that time. A few pro-Trump members were "downsized" because they could not peacefully discuss their differences with the rest of us without a flame war. Some learned how to peacefully co-exist with the rest of us and may still be here. My point is that there is no reason to hate someone for knowing what the truth is and expressing it, even if the truth is personally embarrassing or intolerable.

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02 Aug 2020, 5:04 pm

Fnord wrote:

Mountain Goat wrote:

There are a few areas where what I see as truth may differ with what you see as truth, and in those areas we may dissagree. But fair enough. We are different people with different life experiences.

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Last edited by Mountain Goat on 02 Aug 2020, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ASPartOfMe
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02 Aug 2020, 5:44 pm

Bullying:
Most members here have had to deal with varying levels of bullying and gaslighting. Most members have been used for the entertainment of others without even realizing it or realizing it much later. A lot of realizing it much later is a result of being diagnosed and learning autistic people are particularly vulnerable to this. It is the natural human tendency when realizing this to become hypervigilant thus seeing gaslighting/bullying/people ganging up on you where it does not exist. Bullying is an intentional act. An autistic stating a blunt opinion about you does not necessarily mean that person is bullying. Most people sharply disagreeing with you in PPR usually means your opinion is an outlier. It is deflating to find out you are an outlier on a forum dedicated to outliers but that is not bullying. There are and have been some members who have an atypical sense of humor and sarcasm that is mistaken for bullying.

Moderation:
In order to make Wrong Planet a better place, moderators should start strictly enforcing the ban about saying negative things about current and former members. This section seems to be a place where this rule is not enforced. This thread is one example where the rule has been allowed to be egregiously broken.

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blazingstar
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02 Aug 2020, 6:18 pm

I agree, aspartofme. I do not like the business of ganging up on someone especially when mentioned by name. Or even by insinuation.

I also am concerned that if some people feel they must force another member out...then what? The problems are still there.

And while these issues escalate, people who are kind, optimistic and just trying get along are ignored. Perhaps posters could directed their energy at supporting those who need help, or who are helping others.

While changing the format might help some issues, I think the basic issue exists regardless of format.

I support environ's efforts to create a more welcoming and integrative community. I support all the people who have been positive and constructive in their posts.

There are a couple of maxims that I try to apply. One was from my mother "If you can't think of anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Another is: do not bring up a problem unless you can offer a workable solution.

And finally, a Quaker writer whose name totally escapes me right now, practiced the following throughout his life: he never said anything, even when faced with atrocities, until he could say it with love.

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Mountain Goat
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02 Aug 2020, 6:49 pm

One rule that I feel needs to be added in the political part of the forum, and that is not to make direct personal insults against any individual in politics, be they a current leader or a past leader or a politician standing for election.
If we confine our comments in a non insulting way. (E.g., by commenting on why one does not like a decision the person has made etc) we can have proper enjoyable debates without it getting out of hand.

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Joe90
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02 Aug 2020, 7:34 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:

Joe90 wrote:

I don't understand what you mean.

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sly279
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02 Aug 2020, 7:50 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:

viewtopic.php?t=204613

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kraftiekortie
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02 Aug 2020, 8:13 pm

People on WrongPlanet should definitely not be insulted.

But, in a democracy, any political figure is fair game.

We have the right to attack Trump or Biden. But not attack someone for being a Trump or Biden supporter.

cubedemon6073
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02 Aug 2020, 8:30 pm

Amity wrote:

Ok, I've sent feedback to the mod team, but I'm posting here too, for transparency.

We are haemorrhaging members, good people, people that made a difference in other peoples lives, the ones that helped to keep this place stable and most importantly of all viable as a community.

The friends of WP that have left or are leaving, or as they feel, pushed out, alienated by the mod team. Are we a community where we are peers, or a hierarchy? This one needs to suit our black and white thinking, it needs to be crystal clear.

It seems like the mod team have lost touch with us, the user base, there has been a shift...

If there were volunteer relief positions available I could help out short term, or if regular members were appointed to keep the tone of sub forums pleasant, to report issues, not to moderate, or if there were inbetween positions, like building relations, or a committee to confirm no bias in bannings, but I know that there isnt.
These are all ways to bring back in the membership and hopefully there could be less mod burnout and a sharing of power. More transparency and accountability.

AC is quiet, but the predictably is more attractive it seems.

In the Haven I seen one post, deleted within minutes that was aimed at Sly, it was unspeakably hateful, hideous.
The bullying amongst men here, is unacceptable on any site, I believe the simplest way of identifying bullying, is a pattern, as of now there is no rule to protect people from bullying.

People who post off topic and derail threads with the same narrative are not being considerate of others. It might not be against the rules but it's a fair usage abuse to expect the whole site to just be ok with this.

Its these instances, that are outside the rules that cause issues. There needs to be a clear path to consistent action for dealing with these outside issues.

I often estimate that those given the most chances are the ones who are most likely to take it for granted and land Mods in trouble with the membership because of the inconsistencies, or perhaps they are by nature the most corrupt and lack self awareness.

What if one doesn't believe he is off topic?

cubedemon6073
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02 Aug 2020, 8:34 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Steve1963 wrote:

While I definitely see your point, I don't think he should be banned. Maybe he could be asked to tone it down a bit? To be a little less Fnordy? Overall I like the guy. I find him to be extremely intelligent and knowledgeable on a multitude of subjects. I for one would miss him posting here. I suspect that puts me in the minority.

I see things along the same lines.

I don't know if it's true but it has been said here the mod team cannot agree on how to moderate Fnord (he's not the only one) and as a result, they just stopped moderating him altogether. Because of this, you either get people like smudge who get frustrated with him, or the extremes: a lynching mob forms once in a while asking for his hide, battling those who think he can do no wrong even when he does and will defend him accordingly :lol:

Fnord will react aggressively when attacked and I can't blame him for it, but he wouldn't be put in this position if he would get a polite message from the mods telling him when and where he breaks the rules. He might be difficult but responds to reason :wink:

This is a moderation issue that shouldn't fall on the community and especially new members shouldn't be left to fend for themselves.

Bender, you and others respond to reason. He doesn't and he doesn't answer questions or use logic the way he says he does.

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02 Aug 2020, 8:40 pm

Joe90 wrote:

TheRobotLives wrote:

Joe90 wrote:

I don't understand what you mean.

I think they mean when someone has hurt feelings, they feel attacked and abused when people don't agree with them.

I have seen people online who get abusive and start attacking people when people wouldn't see things their way and had a different perspective than them. Funny thing is I think they are the bullies, not the people disagreeing with them. Then what happens is, people then bully them right back and then the person whines about how they got abused and bullied when they were the ones that started it.

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02 Aug 2020, 9:48 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Personally, I would still see that as a "Personal attack". Whether the person is present or not (or whether they themselves are ever likely to see it) does not alter whether the attack is on their person.

The person's "views"\"opinions"\"words"\"actions"\etc., however, should be fair game (provided explanation as to the reasoning behind the "attack" is supplied), but attacking the person themself shouldn't be.

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