Is there a protocol for dealing with problem moderators?

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Cornflake
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03 Apr 2012, 3:44 pm

Alexender wrote:
I think that would just create a flame war. People siding with the moderators and the "abused"
Exactly. Without some structure it would just be pitchforks and burning tar.


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03 Apr 2012, 3:45 pm

Sounds like it would just be a public callout section for butthurt rulebreakers who want to garner more attention. Sure once in a while someone will have a valid complaint but I don't think such an open spectacle of the site's moderating would be beneficial or useful at all


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Alexender
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03 Apr 2012, 3:45 pm

Cornflake wrote:
Alexender wrote:
I think that would just create a flame war. People siding with the moderators and the "abused"
Exactly. Without some structure it would just be pitchforks and burning tar.


I will bring the feathers


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mushroo
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03 Apr 2012, 3:46 pm

Just butting in to a conversation that is really none of my business. :)

I am a moderator on a different forum. I think the concept of a moderated forum is commonly misunderstood. This is not a free & democratic exchange of ideas, there is no 1st amendment right to freedom of expression, in fact there isn't even a right to post here at all--it is a revocable privilege, and you agreed to certain rules when you registered here. If you purchase a domain name, then you can start your own forum and set your own rules. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but it's true. We are all here as guests of the moderators, and if you want to have a pleasant experience here, it is best to think of the mods as the hosts of a party who will do whatever it takes to keep the party fun for the rules-abiding guests.

I hope I haven't violated any etiquette or offended anyone by crashing the conversation, carry on.



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03 Apr 2012, 3:46 pm

fraac wrote:
I'm suggesting that when a moderator issues an official warning, it also be posted to a sticky thread in this forum. That would ensure that the Wrongplanet community can see where 'the line' is being enforced, and whether a problem mod is overstepping it.


The vast majority of members who get a warning realise they broke the rules. They simply acknowledge the fact, apologise and get on with their lives, continue posting and never repeat the problem behaviour again and never hear from the moderators again. Such people would typically not want the warnings made public. Also many of the warnings are related to offensive behaviour towards other specific members and it is not acceptable to drag the victims names through public scrutiny.

There are occasionally a few rare members who believe that they are outside of the rules and that the site rules do not apply to them. They continue to break the rules and go on and on, fighting the moderators and stirring up s**t one way or another right up to the point where they finally get themselves banned.

You must also be made aware that warnings are sometimes made as a result of an ongoing "drip drip" effect of rule bending rather than one-off posts. One individual post may seem relatively harmless, but the moderators take into account the ongoing behaviour of the member. It would not be appropriate to post all of the ongoing minor offences and rule bending of members publicly. We keep threads for problem members where we record their rule breaking posts and correspondence with moderators. There aren't many of these threads because frankly there aren't that many members who cause ongoing problems. Those threads are available for all moderators and Alex to review at any time.


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fraac
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03 Apr 2012, 3:46 pm

Cornflake wrote:
fraac wrote:
Okay, but in instances where a member feels they are being abused and would LIKE it to made public, for their own protection, that option should be available. Don't you think?

So maybe not post official warnings by default but allow the users to post them without having to ask permission as you normally would with a pm.
You haven't addressed my earlier question of how this would be handled, of how this - what, council of members? - would be set up, run and policed for their possible abuses.
But it's moot, because making PMs public is in violation of the rules.


You wouldn't need meta-mods. Transparency to the community should be sufficient. Making pms public is allowed if both parties agree. I'm suggesting that this rule be relaxed for official warnings.



fraac
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03 Apr 2012, 3:51 pm

mushroo wrote:
We are all here as guests of the moderators, and if you want to have a pleasant experience here, it is best to think of the mods as the hosts of a party who will do whatever it takes to keep the party fun for the rules-abiding guests


I disagree. We are here as guests of the owner. Moderators are ordinary members picked to enforce community standards. They have no magical ability not to be abusive themselves.



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03 Apr 2012, 3:55 pm

fraac wrote:
They have no magical ability not to be abusive themselves.
And neither does the owner - so what was your point again? :?


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mushroo
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03 Apr 2012, 3:56 pm

fraac wrote:
mushroo wrote:
We are all here as guests of the moderators, and if you want to have a pleasant experience here, it is best to think of the mods as the hosts of a party who will do whatever it takes to keep the party fun for the rules-abiding guests


I disagree. We are here as guests of the owner. Moderators are ordinary members picked to enforce community standards. They have no magical ability not to be abusive themselves.


"Picked to enforce" is the key phrase. :)



fraac
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03 Apr 2012, 3:59 pm

Cornflake wrote:
fraac wrote:
They have no magical ability not to be abusive themselves.
And neither does the owner - so what was your point again? :?


The owner is the owner, he can turn off the servers and nothing can be done. You obviously think you're better than other members. That sounds like the basis for an abusive system to me.



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03 Apr 2012, 3:59 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
fraac wrote:
Okay, but in instances where a member feels they are being abused and would LIKE it to made public, for their own protection, that option should be available. Don't you think?

So maybe not post official warnings by default but allow the users to post them without having to ask permission as you normally would with a pm.

that sounds more like you want to incite people to flame me.


Hyperlexian, you are a extraordinarily dedicated, popular, quick-thinking, logical, likeable and smart moderator.

But it seems to me that you don't gel with some members of this forum - certain types of harder edged male Aspie.
Moderators have a chat about that issue?

Is everyone gonna be everyones cup of tea? If you dont gel, you should leave those thread discussions and dealing with those guys to other moderators.

There is a whole subsection of autistics who you just dont connect with. You dont read between the lines - you take them head-on with your best feminist battle laser. Personally, I think moderators should be agents of conciliation. You're a sexy Amazonian. They fancy you for a bit, then you fall out. Your photo is telling them off already.

Otherwise you seem really lovely.



Cornflake
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03 Apr 2012, 4:02 pm

fraac wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
fraac wrote:
They have no magical ability not to be abusive themselves.
And neither does the owner - so what was your point again? :?
The owner is the owner, he can turn off the servers and nothing can be done. You obviously think you're better than other members. That sounds like the basis for an abusive system to me.
That's pretty hysterical IMO since all I was suggesting is that if you're raising the bogeyman of possible moderator abuse then logically, it would apply to the owner too.


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TallyMan
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03 Apr 2012, 4:08 pm

fraac wrote:
Moderators are ordinary members picked to enforce community standards. They have no magical ability not to be abusive themselves.


Moderators are picked from members who have an established history of staying within the site rules themselves and who have shown themselves to be helpful and supportive of other members. We also have a desire that the site runs smoothly without the negative effect of trolls, bullies and flame wars. Moderators are never selected from those people who want the power. Moderators are always conscripts. Alex makes the final decision on the hiring of any moderators. While this process isn't foolproof it has served WP very well.

Many members often comment that they feel safe here and that they can post without fear of ridicule or hostility from other members. The moderators keep the site this way. Most members like it this way. Those that don't like being moderated use alternate sites where there are fewer or no rules. The system here is about as good and as transparent as it gets. I'm open to ideas for how the moderating can be improved, but I've not seen anything suggested by you so far that would be an improvement. To be frank all I see is someone who has broken the site rules several times and is griping because all the moderators can see your ongoing problem behaviour except you.


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fraac
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03 Apr 2012, 4:12 pm

I mostly feel very safe here except when I'm talking about some of my experiences and I know one moderator has personal objections to my point of view - which isn't trolling, it's just my point of view. I would welcome discussion about my points of view, even people openly calling me an idiot I could accept if they honestly believed that, but to give me official warnings instead is clearly abusive.



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03 Apr 2012, 4:13 pm

Dude, stop, this is not going to get you anywhere.


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fraac
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03 Apr 2012, 4:16 pm

PM wrote:
Dude, stop, this is not going to get you anywhere.


Feel free to suggest a better system. I've offered a few ideas.