Women's forum

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There's always the option of just accusing someone of being a man in disguise.

Someone can change their profile to female whenever they want to post in women's only threads.
Maybe they are female who has been masquerading as male until they found that female is required for posting in women's only threads, at which time they reveal that they are truly female and can post in women's only threads.
How could we on a forum know that they are or are not female?

There is no way to know whether any poster is male or female, unless one knows them personally. "Women Only" will only be an illusion.

And what about those that have the wrong gender in their profiles? Do they get to post in "Women Only" threads? What about ftm trans people? They used to be female, do they get to post in those threads or are they now excluded? What if they have important viewpoints from their experiences as biological (XX) females?

What if someone has a shifting gender identity, and they feel female one day and male the next day?
I guess they can only post in women's only threads on the days they feel female.
Their biological gender should never come into play, since gender is only based on how one identifies, and that could change on any given day, hour, minute, or second.

brrr, i know
the one who "feels" female is (very funny) the same who says your not a good "female",
the "pleasant idealisation of being female", is telling you not to *******bleed

Good point.

I discovered the hard way that you can't just update that part of your profile here. Now my info says I'm female, even though I don't want it to, don't identify that way and have no interest in proclaiming such. Imagine the frustration a person with a changing gender identity for whom it was an important or central personal fact would feel stuck with the wrong label and then included or shut out of conversations based on that!

Being unable to change gender on member profiles is a forum glitch that needs to be fixed. That's not a good argument against implementing gender restrictions on a subforum.

But if the forum was going to be women-only, I wouldn't go by the gender people have on their profile. It would be a one-time verification to gain access to the subforum, with an additional set of terms and conditions to be agreed to. This would prevent people from changing their profile back and forth to gain access.

I personally think anyone who has lived as a female should be allowed access. This would include those who were born as biologically female, those who have transitioned to female, and those who have lived as a female and identified as such in their daily life for any significant period of their life. I would also include hermaphrodites regardless of which gender they have identified as socially.

In my view those who have lived as a female at some point in their life are the ones who need a place to discuss issues specific to women. There are women here who might feel male inside, whether some of the time or all of the time, but have also essentially lived their most of all or their lives as biologically female and so they have dealt with problems specific to women.

Men who feel female inside but have never actually lived as a female probably don't need to be there. I would be open to the possibility of allowing them in if there is a need for it. But I think in general, men who have never lived as a female shouldn't have much to contribute there.

Of course people can lie about their gender. Bringing this up is a very weak argument. People can lie about anything else online too. As I said before, minors can also lie about their age to gain access to adult websites, but that doesn't nullify the purposes of age verification. I don't think anyone expects these things to work perfectly, but there is a still a reason why it is done.

A person who drives a Honda can go on websites for Porsche enthusiasts and lie about what kind of car they drive.* But the point is that the forum for Porsche enthusiasts is intended for discussion about Porches, not Hondas. A person who lies about owning a Porsche on a forum for Porsche owners is probably not doing it because they want to sneakily redirect the discussion to Hondas. If they have something useful to contribute to the Porsche discussion, there is no harm done. But if they don't, they would likely be found out pretty quickly.

However, men who participate in women's discussions frequently DO want to use it as a platform to discuss their own issues, or to assert their own perspectives as a contrast to those offered by women. Or, men may sincerely believe they are contributing something useful and helpful to women, without realizing how different it looks from a female perspective. The purpose of making a forum officially "women only" is not to guarantee that every single person who posts in it is female. The purpose is to have a space where female perspectives have the majority, in a relaxed atmosphere, where it does not become a battle for "domination."

*I apologize for using the dreaded car analogy again. lol

WP isn't going to go those lengths. Verification would mean the WP have to comply with data protection laws which are more strict than general privacy laws. Anything that is personally identifying information like a driver's license, passport or birth certificate fall under that. Under UK law some data breaches carry a prison sentence. This is just large liability.

WP is an ASD forum, that is its primary objective. There are dedicated services for this kind of thing if you wanted it. If people find that insulting to say that so be it. We aren't entitled to anything on this site, and we are in the online world.

The only thing that is needed is good moderation. This whole thing getting way overblown IMO.

The women's section wasn't created as some sort of planned affirmative action. It was created along side the men's section. Just that the men's section didn't generate enough interest at the time so was closed down. It is that simple.

I talked about about various solutions, however in reality nobody is entitled to anything on the site.

As I said before if you give an inch, people have the expectation of more. That is just human nature.

Far too many thin skins. I think a number women would find that idea that they are depicted in such a fragile and stereotypical way, as to need guarding, as quite insulting. I have certainly heard that said by women.

there are also agender people who dont identify as male or female, but they may be biological female and want to post about biological female issues, but they may not want to post in a female only forum or thread when they dont identify as female in their minds

the only solution i see to these issues is the one already in place on wp, having forums and threads open to all gender identities or lack of

I wasn't talking about that kind of "verification." Where did you come up with this? I was talking about having someone say just once whether they meet the criteria for entering the forum or not. People usually have to agree to terms and conditions anytime they join a forum, this is no different.




I don't look at it this way. First off the point has been raised several times already that not everyone posting in the women's section is actually an adult woman yet. Some may be very young. Also, the majority of posters here have a neurological disability. Some who are of an adult age may have a developmental delay. If we are trying to "guard" anyone here, it's not about guarding women. This would be a protection for the young and/or disabled.

Second, putting rules or restrictions in place to help people feel more comfortable posting on a forum does not equate to saying that they are, as a group, "fragile" or "thin-skinned" or anything of that nature. That said, there are times when people may feel fragile or thin-skinned for whatever reason and there is nothing wrong with that. I would support anyone who feels that way, and wanted some space or protection for their vulnerability. However, I don't think people have to be feeling thin-skinned or fragile to want some space for a specific kind of discussion.




I agree, but as for who's doing it I think perhaps you should look in the mirror, as you take some pretty wild interpretations of what is being said here.

So...they would post elsewhere in the forum, as would anyone else who doesn't want to participate in a female only forum. The women's forum is not the only place to discuss biological female issues.

The whole idea of this kind of verification or any kind is a non starter.



How is this unique to women/girls or the woman's section?



I was making a logical inference. As the solution you have suggest now is no better than the current.

You cannot verify identity online period/full stop. The idea that holding people to what they happened to have sign up as somehow going to prevent abuse or provide a viable way of keeping the topics for women only, better than what we have already is ludicrous.

The women's forum is by far the best place to discuss biological female issues.
There are many threads about such topics there, and that is where they belong the most.

The women's forum produced about 250 threads a year. There are only about 2k posts since 2007, which is on the lower end of the scale for this forum.

It declined to around 150 in 2013 and has only just broken 200 again.

It is highly likely that things are going to stay as they are as far as structure and rules go.

However when there are these sections, it is human nature for people to feel to entitled to more from time to time.

I can empathise with Smudge as I 've been saying similar things and attempt to answer btbnnyr.

Its a sad factor of life, when a man turns up on your doorstep wanting to get insight and information on private topics of female life, as well as if women choose to do the same in hindsight definition.
The only way you can really spot a male who's repeatedly offending, is if they've been caught numerous times doing it and more often they want to be caught.
(It gives them more say than over something they've commited outside of the forum, i.e at home, work).

The only way men feel safe and secure here, is to shut down outspoken females who are intelligent enough to know when they've smelt a rat. Most of us won't succeed into falling into the same trap, even though our heightened emotions come up in the way. Sometimes.

The only ones who seem to get Welcome anymore are males. I'm not stupid enough to change my gender status because I don't have to. My responses account for that.

Custom rank controls might also prohibit people from changing their age when they reach 1000 posts but that also doesn't bother me. I can align with females the same age as me I don't have to pretend I'm younger to suit an unworthy cause or gender crisis.

Furthermore,
Respectable men should respect women's boundaries and those who can't do that or try that are clearly breaking the rules. Our men from the U.K, mostly step up to the plate.

Continuing to let this thread run, would also be unwise.

I think it is quite patronising of activists to lecture those those women that have real experience of the sensitive issues in question, telling them they are selling out women's cause becuase they don't happen agree with their draconian approach to these issues.

Instead of lecturing people like Yigeren, try listening to them. They don't have "wrong think" becuase they are not all black and white. These people are sensible and pragmatic. Something often lacking.