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Fnord
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04 Aug 2020, 10:23 am

League_Girl wrote:
... Honestly I wonder if some people are really incapable of getting things.
To take the idea even further: I wonder if everyone is incapable of understanding something...

ME: Bats aren't birds.

HE: But they's gots wings, eats bugs, and fly!  They's birds, man!  They's birds!!

ME: :wall:


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Fnord
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04 Aug 2020, 10:27 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Just read books about it like White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo
or, y'know, something by someone who doesn't rely on pseudo-intellectual waffling and unfalsfiable claims (sprinkled with a nice healthy dose of her own racism) to sell her snake oil.
According to Robin DiAngelo, if you are a white person in America, you are a racist, pure and simple; and without a lifetime of conscious effort you always will be, and you can't help it because of "White Privilege".

:roll:


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League_Girl
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04 Aug 2020, 10:31 am

Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
... Honestly I wonder if some people are really incapable of getting things.
To take the idea even further: I wonder if everyone is incapable of understanding something...

ME: Bats aren't birds.

HE: But they's gots wings, eats bugs, and fly!  They's birds, man!  They's birds!!

ME: :wall:



I wonder when we would call it gaslighting when someone isn't ever getting something. We wouldn't call someone with an intellectual impairment a gaslighter because they won't know every skill we have and they have limited cognitive understanding. We wouldn't call an autistic person a gaslighter because they are not getting social cues even if they are trying but to an NT or to someone who is milder on the spectrum it can look that way. Same as how they process things and people who talk to me online will notice how easily I get lost in topics and conversations and I can be talking about one thing but not realize they are talking about something else even though we are technically on the same subject but just imagine if they assumed I was gas lighting?


I have learned to pretend to get things so I don't piss people off. Dishonest yes, but if I am my true self, I will piss someone off and then get called deliberately obtuse. I just go try and seek the information elsewhere and ask someone else to see if they can explain it in away my mind works and way I process things so I understand or wait till I have more experience and I might get it. So sometimes it's better to lie and pretend to avoid coming off as toxic.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:33 am

Fnord wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Just read books about it like White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo
or, y'know, something by someone who doesn't rely on pseudo-intellectual waffling and unfalsfiable claims (sprinkled with a nice healthy dose of her own racism) to sell her snake oil.
According to Robin DiAngelo, if you are a white person in America, you are a racist, pure and simple; and without a lifetime of conscious effort you always will be, and you can't help it because of "White Privilege".

:roll:



When people say all white people are racist, I am sure they mean racial color blindness.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:34 am

League_Girl wrote:
B.Sisko wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
So folks if I had told that fella I never said he sucked or if I asked him where in my posts did I say he sucks, would that still have been gas lighting even if I got confused because I didn't realize he was referring to my vote, not to my post itself? This is what I mean by unintentional.


Quote:
Unconscious Gaslighting
The person is totally unaware they are engaging in it. In fact, they perceive they are being very reasonable in their interactions because they have no clue about the impact of what they are doing. They might even lack the capacity or willingness to question their own viewpoint in consideration of another’s viewpoint

Here is what it can look like:

The ‘I Don’t Get It’ Act

Over the course of a week, I explained and re-explained the company’s vision to my colleague numerous times. I teach English as a Second Language for a living, so I’m intimately familiar with how to break down concepts, reword definitions, and give examples. This was a totally different issue. My colleague continued to claim confusion over and over again.When someone says they are confused and makes no effort to dive into why they’re confused, they continually put the onus on you to explain. It not only becomes tedious, it has you question what you’re saying. I began to wonder, Why am I not getting through? How is it he’s not understanding these the ideas I’m explaining? Then, it hit me: he actually didn’t want to understand but likely didn’t know that. Someone who truly wants to understand makes efforts in that direction.




It seemed to go from that yes you can do it on accident and not realize it to "no, it means you are pretending to be obtuse because you don't want to get it." I don't think that was the case with me or I still would have been obtuse about why he asked me if he sucks for staying with her.


I have seen parents joke about their toddlers gaslighting them to make fun of abusers. Narcissists truly believe their kid is out to get them. Oh the victim complex is so strong. No Karen, your two year old didn't throw a tantrum to humiliate you and to dominate you, that is call being two years old. Their emotions are not that far developed to handle disappointment.


glad you worked it out :D

narcissist parents can do irreparable damage


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Fnord
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04 Aug 2020, 10:38 am

League_Girl wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Just read books about it like White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo
or, y'know, something by someone who doesn't rely on pseudo-intellectual waffling and unfalsfiable claims (sprinkled with a nice healthy dose of her own racism) to sell her snake oil.
According to Robin DiAngelo, if you are a white person in America, you are a racist, pure and simple; and without a lifetime of conscious effort you always will be, and you can't help it because of "White Privilege".
When people say all white people are racist, I am sure they mean racial color blindness.
When people say that all white people are racist, I assume they mean that all white people are racist, which is a racist statement in itself.


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04 Aug 2020, 10:41 am

Fnord wrote:
B.Sisko wrote:
... The 'I Don’t Get It' Act

Over the course of a week, I explained and re-explained the company's vision to my colleague numerous times.  I teach English as a Second Language for a living, so I'm intimately familiar with how to break down concepts, reword definitions, and give examples.  This was a totally different issue.  My colleague continued to claim confusion over and over again.  When someone says they are confused and makes no effort to dive into why they're confused, they continually put the onus on you to explain.  It not only becomes tedious, it has you question what you're saying.  I began to wonder, Why am I not getting through?  How is it he's not understanding these the ideas I'm explaining?  Then, it hit me: he actually didn't want to understand but likely didn’t know that.  Someone who truly wants to understand makes efforts in that direction.
I see this a lot in L&D with the "I can't get a girlfriend" crowd.


thanks for the warning


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Wolfram87
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04 Aug 2020, 10:44 am

Fnord wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Just read books about it like White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo
or, y'know, something by someone who doesn't rely on pseudo-intellectual waffling and unfalsfiable claims (sprinkled with a nice healthy dose of her own racism) to sell her snake oil.
According to Robin DiAngelo, if you are a white person in America, you are a racist, pure and simple; and without a lifetime of conscious effort you always will be, and you can't help it because of "White Privilege".

:roll:


And even then, you're still a racist, you're just a somewhat aware racist.


Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
... Honestly I wonder if some people are really incapable of getting things.
To take the idea even further: I wonder if everyone is incapable of understanding something...

ME: Bats aren't birds.

HE: But they's gots wings, eats bugs, and fly! They's birds, man! They's birds!!

ME: :wall:



...Please tell me this is not a conversation that actually took place.


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Fnord
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04 Aug 2020, 10:47 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
...
Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
... Honestly I wonder if some people are really incapable of getting things.
To take the idea even further: I wonder if everyone is incapable of understanding something...

ME: Bats aren't birds.

HE: But they's gots wings, eats bugs, and fly! They's birds, man! They's birds!!

ME: :wall:
... Please tell me this is not a conversation that actually took place.
I wish I could.  The man was looking for bats' nests ... to steal their eggs ... to hatch them and train the fledgling bats to hunt ...

:roll:


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04 Aug 2020, 10:52 am

Well I just learned bats are a mammal.

Some people out there think whales are fish. I knew since second grade they are mammals. Textbooks always read "They are not fish, they are mammals."

But hey these people are going to use the "not everything you read is true" logic. :roll:


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Fnord
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04 Aug 2020, 11:02 am

League_Girl wrote:
Well I just learned bats are a mammal.  Some people out there think whales are fish. I knew since second grade they are mammals.  Textbooks always read "They are not fish, they are mammals."  But hey these people are going to use the "not everything you read is true" logic.
It scares me sometimes to think about how some people are so anti-intellectual that they refuse to trust anything that a reasonably educated person would know.

For instance, did you know that the pineapple is related to neither the pine nor the apple?  It is actually a cluster of berries grown into one solid, pulpy mass.

Yet, I know people in Michigan who sincerely believe that pine-cones are "pine-apples" that have dried on the pine-tree.  Trying to prove otherwise only got me in trouble for being a "smart-ass" who liked to make people look "stoopid".


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04 Aug 2020, 11:08 am

Fnord wrote:
It scares me sometimes to think about how some people are so anti-intellectual that they refuse to trust anything that a reasonably educated person would know.

For instance, did you know that the pineapple is related to neither the pine nor the apple?  It is actually a cluster of berries grown into one solid, pulpy mass.

Yet, I know people in Michigan who sincerely believe that pine-cones are "pine-apples" that have dried on the pine-tree.  Trying to prove otherwise only got me in trouble for being a "smart-ass" who liked to make people look "stoopid".

Image

Yes, it is scary.


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04 Aug 2020, 11:16 am

Fnord wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
...
Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
... Honestly I wonder if some people are really incapable of getting things.
To take the idea even further: I wonder if everyone is incapable of understanding something...

ME: Bats aren't birds.

HE: But they's gots wings, eats bugs, and fly! They's birds, man! They's birds!!

ME: :wall:
... Please tell me this is not a conversation that actually took place.
I wish I could.  The man was looking for bats' nests ... to steal their eggs ... to hatch them and train the fledgling bats to hunt ...

:roll:


My Dad would go up to talk to anyone. He was tallented like that. At a local beach he saw an elderly lady looking for something, so he asked "What are you looking for?"
"Cockles" she replied.
My dad said they are under the sand, and he walked to an area that had the tell tale signs, and with his walking stick he dug one up.
She said "That's not a cockle. That's a shell".
My Dad explained to her there was a cockle inside it and if you boiled them in a saucepan, when the creature dies, it will open its shell and you can eat it.
She was having none of that and the usual thing was said "I have lived in London for "X" years (Could not recall the number of years her age was but she was past retirement age)" (You know the story of how people don't like being wrong and try to make themselves seem knowledgeable and important).
My Dad said something like "You have lived in this country for all those years and expected to see ready cooked cockles sitting on the sand?"

It makes one wonder how someone can live for so long and not know basic things. At least she found the right beach, we shall give her that! :D


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B.Sisko
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04 Aug 2020, 11:20 am

Quote:
It makes one wonder how someone can live for so long and not know basic things.


quite


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04 Aug 2020, 11:24 am

I think I understand why my mom lacks friends and always had troubles fitting in. She once told me she sometimes thinks she has something wrong with her so I told her she can always go to a therapist to get it figured out.

But then she told me she has always called people out on their racism and prejudice. Lot of people do not like this so this is reason number 1 possibly.

Two, I read on Reddit that gossip is part of human social interaction and it's how people relate. My mom is someone who hates gossip and wants no part in it, she would call people out on it and tell them 'did you talk to that person yet?" "no" Then she would tell them "then you have no right to bad talk them behind their back." So another reason here.

So these are probably why. Not that she is a bad person and it's good to be an advocate for the minority and stand up for other people but sadly not everyone likes it. I think this is another reason why people stay silent. They don't want to be made out to be the bad guy.

My mom did the same to her mother too. Her mom would use the word "colored" and my mom started telling her as a teen, "Mom, that is racist to say that, don't call them colored." Honestly that was the word my grandma heard growing up and that was how they were referred as.


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04 Aug 2020, 11:34 am

League_Girl wrote:
it's good to be an advocate for the minority and stand up for other people but sadly not everyone likes it.


i would guess this


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