Making it Better: The future of WP
i thought the discussion was pretty civil
and believed my posts would be classed as "Making it Better: The future of WP"
i apologise if they were seen any other way
_________________
It is far better for people to hate you for doing the right thing than for people to love you for doing the wrong thing. Never ever forget that.
They cannot make any technical changes, Teach, they don't' have an admin. And there's also a problem with the fact that once strong feuds, alliances or enmities are created in the PPR they tend to bleed all over the forum.
_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley

I wont make any claims to the character of other members, but funeralxempires definition is valid interpretation. It is an expansion of the phrase 'dominate society'.
funeralxempires wrote "If someone consistently puts the interests and concerns of white people ahead of those of other people is it unfair to refer to that person as a white supremacist when they meet the definition?"
Those are different definitions. funeralxempires definition has nothing to do with the interpretation that one race is better or superior to another race.
The definition of prejudice is "an unfair feeling of dislike for a person or group because of race, sex, religion, etc. : a feeling of like or dislike for someone or something especially when it is not reasonable or logical." He has redefined prejudiced into white supremacists.
If funeralxempires refers to another member as a white supremacist then he applying a derogatory term against another member.
You seem to be under the impression that one can only be a white supremacist if they preach some sort of 'master race' nonsense and basing all of your conclusions on that overly strict definition.
When you state that Jimmy is basing his conclusion on some sort of master race 'nonsense' ~ it is an interesting statement given that you previously stated:
I thought we were supposed to be in favour of speaking the truth plainly.
Yet you have not plainly stated what makes sense to you.
You seem to be referring to the master race 'nonsense' as being in the master and servant sense such as involving slavery, rather than in the sense of a master who is considered before others on account of sex, age and experience ~ as in terms of being more in control of themselves, hence the derogation on account that some believe that light skinned cultures are more civilised or advanced than dark skinned cultures and vice-versa ~ because of not linguistically understanding or behaviourally appreciating each other's historical traditions or developmental innovations.
Stick as you state to calling a 'spade a spade' (i.e., as being here reading what is written) rather than imagining the intentions of the digger (you) and undermining yourself by way of entrenching others in your fantasised interactions (teeth gnashing and silencing you). The [psychological] map is not as such the [physiological] territory! The only thing stopping your freedom of speech is your failure to abide by it in terms of respecting other peoples sense and sensibilities ~ recalling or considering anew that the freedom of speech is like having a driving license and abiding by the highway code ~ so drop the imagined wrong doings of yourself in other's positions, and pick up on the subject matter of the discussion itself (as being to make the future of Wrong Planet better) instead, and no longer break the following rule:
2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.
Your compliance is very much appreciated as it is universally required. Thankyou everyone.
If calling out racism is a bannable offence I will have to accept that outcome. Until then, I'll keep calling it as I see it. As long as posters rely on racist stereotypes to justify their hostility to BLM I'll call them what they are. Feel free to report me as much as you feel the need to.
Stating that something appears to be racist along with an explanation as to why you believe that might be the case is fair enough, but stating things without explanation and with derogatory remarks towards other members included can result in being banned at least temporarily in the first instance or two, and if there is no relent in disregarding the universally required etiquette ~ a permanent ban would be likely.
You still though have not made it clear which sense of racism you are drawing our attention to ~ despite my attempt to clear that up for everyone regarding the slave master connotation, or a master who is considered before others in respect of sex, age and experience.
Your clarification on the matter would streamline the discussion and allow things to run smoother on this thread regarding this issue of mutual concern, and would therefore be very much appreciated.
_________________
I reserve the right or is it left to at very least be wrong
Teach51
Veteran
Joined: 28 Jan 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,808
Location: Where angels do not fear to tread.
Yes Bender. Then it may be WP's "swan song." Some members just go straight for the jugular and don't let go, they thrive on conflict. Inevitably they will be the last left still standing and suddenly realise they have driven all the more mellow souls away.
_________________
My best will just have to be good enough.
It doesn't have to be that way if people are held to a higher standard of posting. Anecdotally, I used to be on a forum that had a very interesting strategy for their off-topic section: they allowed literally anything, but had a zero-tolerance (three strikes actually) policy for insults and personal attacks against individual members or groups (this included various forms of bigotry, racism etc). People were free to discuss the most weird or controversial stuff you can think of, but they had to do so in a civil and articulate manner. It surely made for some interesting exchanges.
As someone who's not a mellow soul but dislikes bullying or mob mentality, I quite enjoyed that
Edit to clarify the first edit: I added the last line to defend myself against any suspicion of being a "mellow soul"
_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
Last edited by BenderRodriguez on 04 Aug 2020, 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I think we could all use some lessons in gaman as one user asked about in another thread
Maybe feuding should be a banable (temporary?) offence?
Last edited by Feyokien on 04 Aug 2020, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,226
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria
Even this thread has become a political arena.
Separating the political forum completely and isolating the conflicts to a restricted arena may be WP's salvation. It's in your face constantly even if you try your best to avoid it.
If we had the admin power we'd do that. We'll be submitting a formal request to admin soon, with various suggestions.
I don't believe all the "mellow souls" will leave but would suggest they avoid PPR if at all possible. i think the whole forum might be unnecessary. Many folk would prefer to discuss their model trains, recipes or the movies they've seen. We're going to post rules as "sticky" (if possible without admin tools...) and re-post some rules where folk can see them prior to posting.
We have some fantastic members here and although I miss some who have left since I joined, there are numerous reasons they left and in most cases not because of members here but because personal stuff in real life got in the way. i'm still in intermittent contact with a few of these.
@Bender: I like the sound of that!! it could change the tone of future exchanges here.
_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?
my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/
Even this thread has become a political arena.
Separating the political forum completely and isolating the conflicts to a restricted arena may be WP's salvation. It's in your face constantly even if you try your best to avoid it.
Calling people white supremist isnt political and is happen all over the forum not just ppr.
How would eveyone feel if some guy went around calling all the women here sluts?
Then when pointed out he said I’m just calling a spade a spade.
_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die
envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,226
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria
I've removed some content of his on the previous pages that went off topic into personal terrain.
_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?
my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/
Even this thread has become a political arena.
Separating the political forum completely and isolating the conflicts to a restricted arena may be WP's salvation. It's in your face constantly even if you try your best to avoid it.
If we had the admin power we'd do that. We'll be submitting a formal request to admin soon, with various suggestions.
I don't believe all the "mellow souls" will leave but would suggest they avoid PPR if at all possible. i think the whole forum might be unnecessary. Many folk would prefer to discuss their model trains, recipes or the movies they've seen. We're going to post rules as "sticky" (if possible without admin tools...) and re-post some rules where folk can see them prior to posting.
We have some fantastic members here and although I miss some who have left since I joined, there are numerous reasons they left and in most cases not because of members here but because personal stuff in real life got in the way. i'm still in intermittent contact with a few of these.
@Bender: I like the sound of that!! it could change the tone of future exchanges here.
It’s not limited to ppr. Pretty much non of the personal attacks on me happen in ppr. It’s in love in dating, haven, news, general forum, etc it’s everywhere
Most of those who left say they same thing, “ being called white supremist for disagreeing or defending others being bullied” so it seems quite clear to most people what the issue is, but you’d all rather ignore it.
_________________
There is no place for me in the world. I'm going into the wilderness, probably to die
It doesn't have to be that way if people are held to a higher standard of posting. Anecdotally, I used to be on a forum that had a very interesting strategy for their off-topic section: they allowed literally anything, but had a zero-tolerance (three strikes actually) policy for insults and personal attacks against individual members or groups (this included various forms of bigotry, racism etc). People were free to discuss the most weird or controversial stuff you can think of, but they had to do so in a civil and articulate manner. It surely made for some interesting exchanges.
As someone who's not a mellow soul but dislikes bullying or mob mentality, I quite enjoyed that
I think I would find it hard to not get mad if someone believed the Holocaust never happened or if they thought it should be fine for adults to date kids because of culture you know. These are extreme examples and it would be very difficult to be civil about it.
There are other topics out there where people would have troubles staying civil, transgender, racial issues, homosexuality and those marginalized would have difficulty staying civil and their allies. I have seen worse so I do not believe funeralexmpire has attacked anyone. I have seen on Twitter what people have done to people online who make transphobic comments or homophobic comments.
I know of one group on Fetlife that was trans friendly and would kick anyone out if they said there are only two genders or wrote anything transphobic (rather intentional or unintentional) or if you compared your kink to LGBT. It would get pretty hostile and it would be trans people and allies against cis person before one of the group admins booted them out.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,226
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria
Even this thread has become a political arena.
Separating the political forum completely and isolating the conflicts to a restricted arena may be WP's salvation. It's in your face constantly even if you try your best to avoid it.
If we had the admin power we'd do that. We'll be submitting a formal request to admin soon, with various suggestions.
I don't believe all the "mellow souls" will leave but would suggest they avoid PPR if at all possible. i think the whole forum might be unnecessary. Many folk would prefer to discuss their model trains, recipes or the movies they've seen. We're going to post rules as "sticky" (if possible without admin tools...) and re-post some rules where folk can see them prior to posting.
We have some fantastic members here and although I miss some who have left since I joined, there are numerous reasons they left and in most cases not because of members here but because personal stuff in real life got in the way. i'm still in intermittent contact with a few of these.
@Bender: I like the sound of that!! it could change the tone of future exchanges here.
It’s not limited to ppr. Pretty much non of the personal attacks on me happen in ppr. It’s in love in dating, haven, news, general forum, etc it’s everywhere
Most of those who left say they same thing, “ being called white supremist for disagreeing or defending others being bullied” so it seems quite clear to most people what the issue is, but you’d all rather ignore it.

please remember that 4 mods can only see a fraction of content here - the tip of the iceberg so we need to see PMs or reports on Mod Attention thread. It's now well after 11 p m here and I'm still on here as there were things to see to on here. I will CERTAINLY act if you do report rule-breaking per PM as that notification comes directly to my email. The best time to deal with such is within 24 hours, IMHO. Not a week or more after the fact.
_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?
my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/
There are other topics out there where people would have troubles staying civil, transgender, racial issues, homosexuality and those marginalized would have difficulty staying civil and their allies. I have seen worse so I do not believe funeralexmpire has attacked anyone. I have seen on Twitter what people have done to people online who make transphobic comments or homophobic comments.
I know of one group on Fetlife that was trans-friendly and would kick anyone out if they said there are only two genders or wrote anything transphobic (rather intentional or unintentional) or if you compared your kink to LGBT. It would get pretty hostile and it would be trans people and allies against cis person before one of the group admins booted them out.
But isn't that the problem? It's fine to get mad, I do too. It's still your choice if you're going to lash out or not. Sometimes I have to sit on my hands, go do something else and post an answer when I'm calm(er). How many times have you "cured" a bigot or changed anybody's mind by insulting them online or offline? At best it silences them or makes them hide, but, if anything, it's going to cement their prejudices. And how about the times when we misunderstand or make assumptions and attack people instead of asking questions?
I think we can do a lot better than Twitter, don't you?
I have no problem with funeralexmpire, he's smart and can be very articulate when he wants to. I talked to him a couple of times and understand how important racial issues are to him (rightly so) and I've seen he also struggles a lot with all kind of stuff in his private life. But so does sly (whom I've never personally seen making racist remarks) and others, I'm only trying to keep perspective here.
_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,226
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria

_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?
my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/
Teach51
Veteran
Joined: 28 Jan 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,808
Location: Where angels do not fear to tread.
Time to go rest then enviro
You are doing a great job and are much appreciated
Sly you are loved by many sweety you know that
You need to let your silky pelt get thicker so you will be more protected. I always say (metaphor) "someone can put landmines in front of me but I don't have to walk on them."
_________________
My best will just have to be good enough.
