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aghogday
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22 May 2011, 7:12 pm

MCalavera wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Specifically, I take issue with MCalavera's attitude and implications throughout this thread. I also attempted to explain why anyone besides Alex admining the site would be difficult, because I think not many people realize the issues that the software running the site has.


Hand me the keys to the code and I will do it if it's sooo difficult for you. And anyway the issue isn't that this forum needs to be upgraded to the latest version. The main issue is to have the glitches and bugs fixed that weren't there previously. I understand an upgrade is a big thing. Fixing glitches and bugs, however, is not necessarily so.

Oh, and money, if you want to whine about how Alex is losing from this forum, please give us the financial details or else take back what you said and don't try to fool us with imaginary problems. Paying for a server regularly isn't as bad as you make it sound if you have various sources of income online to keep you running the forum. I know Alex isn't stupid. He ain't going bankrupt any moment soon.


Let's not forget Alex has Asperger's too. Would anyone here let someone else take over their special interest? Do any of us have issues with control? Do we like things to change once we get things working the way we want them? Do any of us get wrapped up into something we see as important and let something else that is not on the front burner, stay on the backburner? Some of us don't and some of us do. The site is not perfect, but if one stays within the rules, I don't see where there is a huge problem. Considering the number of members that are online at any given time, I haven't seen a tremendous number of complaints, other than those that have had problems with the rules in the past.

The biggest general comment I see is the site is slow, but on the other hand it is free and many people over the course of the last seven years have got tremendous support out of it.

The moderators on this site do a great job, and it to their credit that they care enough to keep up with the demands of the website, without much assistance from admin. However, it is a voluntary responsibility and there are no requirements to do it, if one does not like the current issues. I respect Midlife Aspie's decision to resign, it was obviously the right one for him. But also, respect the other moderators that are doing a great job, and continue to volunteer their time in support of the website.

I liken the issue here as complaining about the government; people don't mind using highways but hate paying taxes. At least here, it is absolutely free. No guests here are required to pay to fix potholes; lags in speed are inconvenient, but they are not costing anyone money.

I see the issues with people trying to get priviledges back, but as a whole business seems to be going on as usual, with a few bumps in the road. Are there any serious issues here, that I am missing, above and beyond inconvenience.



Sallamandrina
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22 May 2011, 7:20 pm

Roman, since I can't help you with your PM rights I'd like to suggest something until the issue is solved. Create a new email address so you won't have to disclose your personal one or have it spammed and put it in your signature. This way you'll be able to ask people to contact you if you want to talk to them privately.


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MCalavera
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22 May 2011, 7:29 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
I'm not talking about an upgrade. I'm literally talking about moving to an entirely different platform. The software this board is based on is not designed to handle the amount of traffic that is being put on it. To compensate for that, Alex has written a lot of code to try and mash a bunch of things together, and over time it's grown to be the problem that it is.


And what exactly is the problem there? Fine. Backup the files needed for members and their posts and whatever. You don't need to backup all the customized stuff.

Again, this does not explain why the current glitches and issues aren't being fixed. Why aren't the members' requests not being addressed?

Quote:
As far as telling you exactly what's what - I won't do that. Out of a legal obligation and an ethical responsibility to keep customer's information private, I won't give details unless I've been allowed to. However, handling a site of substantial size is a huge challenge, and it's something my company specializes in. We host sites that are on national television, we host one of the largest creative professional communities on the web. We've hosted sites that have been through the Digg effect, and the Apple Hot News effect, and the Slashdot effect, and the Dateline NBC effect, and I have to say out of all of them, this site uses the most resources by far (something like 2-3x more RAM, disk IO, etc). And, it also has about 1/3rd the overall traffic of some of our other sites. All of those resources are taken up by inefficiency. There are a lot of things we *could* do to make the site run a lot better, but aren't able to do because the software doesn't support it.


How much is Alex making in a day from this forum? If we're not allowed to know this, then don't mention any of the above.

Quote:
All of that pushes the bill higher, and adds to the ridiculous complexity.


I'll go along with this exaggeration for now. He is earning money from various sources, no?

Quote:
But again, I'm not making any kind of argument to defend Alex's actions, I'm defending Alex. He is not arrogant, or lazy, or selfish, or any of the things some people are making him out to be. You can think he's wrong, and say you think he's wrong, without attacking the man.


I could care less if he's lazy or selfish. But at least admit he's not taking full responsibility as the admin/webmaster of this forum.

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Of course, that brings up the reality of the situation, that no matter how much you think he's wrong, you can't take the site away from him.


Hahahaha, you make it sound like he gives a damn if anyone took the site away from him. :D



MCalavera
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22 May 2011, 7:32 pm

aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Specifically, I take issue with MCalavera's attitude and implications throughout this thread. I also attempted to explain why anyone besides Alex admining the site would be difficult, because I think not many people realize the issues that the software running the site has.


Hand me the keys to the code and I will do it if it's sooo difficult for you. And anyway the issue isn't that this forum needs to be upgraded to the latest version. The main issue is to have the glitches and bugs fixed that weren't there previously. I understand an upgrade is a big thing. Fixing glitches and bugs, however, is not necessarily so.

Oh, and money, if you want to whine about how Alex is losing from this forum, please give us the financial details or else take back what you said and don't try to fool us with imaginary problems. Paying for a server regularly isn't as bad as you make it sound if you have various sources of income online to keep you running the forum. I know Alex isn't stupid. He ain't going bankrupt any moment soon.


Let's not forget Alex has Asperger's too. Would anyone here let someone else take over their special interest? Do any of us have issues with control? Do we like things to change once we get things working the way we want them? Do any of us get wrapped up into something we see as important and let something else that is not on the front burner, stay on the backburner? Some of us don't and some of us do. The site is not perfect, but if one stays within the rules, I don't see where there is a huge problem. Considering the number of members that are online at any given time, I haven't seen a tremendous number of complaints, other than those that have had problems with the rules in the past.

The biggest general comment I see is the site is slow, but on the other hand it is free and many people over the course of the last seven years have got tremendous support out of it.

The moderators on this site do a great job, and it to their credit that they care enough to keep up with the demands of the website, without much assistance from admin. However, it is a voluntary responsibility and there are no requirements to do it, if one does not like the current issues. I respect Midlife Aspie's decision to resign, it was obviously the right one for him. But also, respect the other moderators that are doing a great job, and continue to volunteer their time in support of the website.

I liken the issue here as complaining about the government; people don't mind using highways but hate paying taxes. At least here, it is absolutely free. No guests here are required to pay to fix potholes; lags in speed are inconvenient, but they are not costing anyone money.

I see the issues with people trying to get priviledges back, but as a whole business seems to be going on as usual, with a few bumps in the road. Are there any serious issues here, that I am missing, above and beyond inconvenience.


So no credit whatsoever to the members who contribute to this forum and give Alex joy for the money he earns because of the activity level of this forum and our posts?

And this isn't an issue with the moderators by the way.



sliqua-jcooter
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22 May 2011, 7:43 pm

MCalavera wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
I'm not talking about an upgrade. I'm literally talking about moving to an entirely different platform. The software this board is based on is not designed to handle the amount of traffic that is being put on it. To compensate for that, Alex has written a lot of code to try and mash a bunch of things together, and over time it's grown to be the problem that it is.


And what exactly is the problem there? Fine. Backup the files needed for members and their posts and whatever. You don't need to backup all the customized stuff.

Again, this does not explain why the current glitches and issues aren't being fixed. Why aren't the members' requests not being addressed?


The problem is that moving to a new system is going to change things, and everyone that I've talked to doesn't want to do it for that reason alone. The real challenge is getting the community to realize and accept a massive change in the way the system works, with the understanding that it will make things operate much better.


Quote:
How much is Alex making in a day from this forum? If we're not allowed to know this, then don't mention any of the above.


It has nothing to do with what you are and aren't allowed to know - it has to do with what I am and am not allowed to tell you. Our normal policy is not to even admit that any given site is hosted by us unless authorized by the customer, even though it's trivial to look such information up. The only reason I'm allowed to talk about any of this is that Alex allowed us to.

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Quote:
All of that pushes the bill higher, and adds to the ridiculous complexity.


I'll go along with this exaggeration for now. He is earning money from various sources, no?


Yes, and he's also spending money toward various sources.

Quote:
I could care less if he's lazy or selfish. But at least admit he's not taking full responsibility as the admin/webmaster of this forum.


No, because as MidlifeAspie pointed out, I have no basis with which to judge any of that. I have no presence in this community, thus my opinion on the matter is both moot and lacking any kind of merit.

Quote:
Hahahaha, you make it sound like he gives a damn if anyone took the site away from him. :D


And finally, we come back to a shining example of why I became involved in this thread to begin with. Comments like that are completely unnecessary, and are the embodiment of exactly what I'm trying to point out to you - Alex does, in fact, give a damn. If he didn't, there would be no reason for him to keep paying the bills. Hurling insults is completely unnecessary, and if it doesn't make him mad, it certainly enrages me.



League_Girl
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22 May 2011, 7:50 pm

Do you know alex personally?



aghogday
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22 May 2011, 7:54 pm

MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Specifically, I take issue with MCalavera's attitude and implications throughout this thread. I also attempted to explain why anyone besides Alex admining the site would be difficult, because I think not many people realize the issues that the software running the site has.


Hand me the keys to the code and I will do it if it's sooo difficult for you. And anyway the issue isn't that this forum needs to be upgraded to the latest version. The main issue is to have the glitches and bugs fixed that weren't there previously. I understand an upgrade is a big thing. Fixing glitches and bugs, however, is not necessarily so.

Oh, and money, if you want to whine about how Alex is losing from this forum, please give us the financial details or else take back what you said and don't try to fool us with imaginary problems. Paying for a server regularly isn't as bad as you make it sound if you have various sources of income online to keep you running the forum. I know Alex isn't stupid. He ain't going bankrupt any moment soon.


Let's not forget Alex has Asperger's too. Would anyone here let someone else take over their special interest? Do any of us have issues with control? Do we like things to change once we get things working the way we want them? Do any of us get wrapped up into something we see as important and let something else that is not on the front burner, stay on the backburner? Some of us don't and some of us do. The site is not perfect, but if one stays within the rules, I don't see where there is a huge problem. Considering the number of members that are online at any given time, I haven't seen a tremendous number of complaints, other than those that have had problems with the rules in the past.

The biggest general comment I see is the site is slow, but on the other hand it is free and many people over the course of the last seven years have got tremendous support out of it.

The moderators on this site do a great job, and it to their credit that they care enough to keep up with the demands of the website, without much assistance from admin. However, it is a voluntary responsibility and there are no requirements to do it, if one does not like the current issues. I respect Midlife Aspie's decision to resign, it was obviously the right one for him. But also, respect the other moderators that are doing a great job, and continue to volunteer their time in support of the website.

I liken the issue here as complaining about the government; people don't mind using highways but hate paying taxes. At least here, it is absolutely free. No guests here are required to pay to fix potholes; lags in speed are inconvenient, but they are not costing anyone money.

I see the issues with people trying to get priviledges back, but as a whole business seems to be going on as usual, with a few bumps in the road. Are there any serious issues here, that I am missing, above and beyond inconvenience.


So no credit whatsoever to the members who contribute to this forum and give Alex joy for the money he earns because of the activity level of this forum and our posts?

And this isn't an issue with the moderators by the way.


People are here because they want to be; they deserve credit for those whom they offer support for and help. If one could measure the whole enterprise over the last seven years, how could one compare the benefits that the thousands of users that come here have gained, because of the efforts of Alex, a few other people, and many volunteers; as opposed to any financial gain Alex may or may not receive.

It was a groundbreaking, amazing accomplishment for a few individuals to create the site, and people continue to get a benefit from it for free.

Above and beyond that there is nothing preventing anyone from creating a hundred other sites to compete with this one, and to improve and make a better site if they wanted to. The bus is getting old, but it is the people inside of it that makes it what it is.

If it was a profitable venture to run a site for people with Autism to interact with other people with the condition, this would be far from the only site of this size.

It also would be advantageous to make the site as fast as possible, if it was generating the revenue to support the improvement, particularly if the motivation was to make a profit.



sliqua-jcooter
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22 May 2011, 7:57 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Do you know alex personally?


Yep. Assuming you're talking to me.



MCalavera
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22 May 2011, 8:19 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
The problem is that moving to a new system is going to change things, and everyone that I've talked to doesn't want to do it for that reason alone. The real challenge is getting the community to realize and accept a massive change in the way the system works, with the understanding that it will make things operate much better.


Oh, so now you're worried about what the community thinks. Do it if that's what the forum needs.

And, once again, you didn't answer the more important question, mate.

Why aren't the current [relatively minor] issues being addressed?

I will keep asking you this question until you, or someone else at the same level as you or above, answers this question.

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Yes, and he's also spending money toward various sources.


Big deal.

We know it's not as bad as you make it sound.

By the way, who are you really? :)



MCalavera
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22 May 2011, 8:26 pm

aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Specifically, I take issue with MCalavera's attitude and implications throughout this thread. I also attempted to explain why anyone besides Alex admining the site would be difficult, because I think not many people realize the issues that the software running the site has.


Hand me the keys to the code and I will do it if it's sooo difficult for you. And anyway the issue isn't that this forum needs to be upgraded to the latest version. The main issue is to have the glitches and bugs fixed that weren't there previously. I understand an upgrade is a big thing. Fixing glitches and bugs, however, is not necessarily so.

Oh, and money, if you want to whine about how Alex is losing from this forum, please give us the financial details or else take back what you said and don't try to fool us with imaginary problems. Paying for a server regularly isn't as bad as you make it sound if you have various sources of income online to keep you running the forum. I know Alex isn't stupid. He ain't going bankrupt any moment soon.


Let's not forget Alex has Asperger's too. Would anyone here let someone else take over their special interest? Do any of us have issues with control? Do we like things to change once we get things working the way we want them? Do any of us get wrapped up into something we see as important and let something else that is not on the front burner, stay on the backburner? Some of us don't and some of us do. The site is not perfect, but if one stays within the rules, I don't see where there is a huge problem. Considering the number of members that are online at any given time, I haven't seen a tremendous number of complaints, other than those that have had problems with the rules in the past.

The biggest general comment I see is the site is slow, but on the other hand it is free and many people over the course of the last seven years have got tremendous support out of it.

The moderators on this site do a great job, and it to their credit that they care enough to keep up with the demands of the website, without much assistance from admin. However, it is a voluntary responsibility and there are no requirements to do it, if one does not like the current issues. I respect Midlife Aspie's decision to resign, it was obviously the right one for him. But also, respect the other moderators that are doing a great job, and continue to volunteer their time in support of the website.

I liken the issue here as complaining about the government; people don't mind using highways but hate paying taxes. At least here, it is absolutely free. No guests here are required to pay to fix potholes; lags in speed are inconvenient, but they are not costing anyone money.

I see the issues with people trying to get priviledges back, but as a whole business seems to be going on as usual, with a few bumps in the road. Are there any serious issues here, that I am missing, above and beyond inconvenience.


So no credit whatsoever to the members who contribute to this forum and give Alex joy for the money he earns because of the activity level of this forum and our posts?

And this isn't an issue with the moderators by the way.


People are here because they want to be; they deserve credit for those whom they offer support for and help. If one could measure the whole enterprise over the last seven years, how could one compare the benefits that the thousands of users that come here have gained, because of the efforts of Alex, a few other people, and many volunteers; as opposed to any financial gain Alex may or may not receive.

It was a groundbreaking, amazing accomplishment for a few individuals to create the site, and people continue to get a benefit from it for free.

Above and beyond that there is nothing preventing anyone from creating a hundred other sites to compete with this one, and to improve and make a better site if they wanted to. The bus is getting old, but it is the people inside of it that makes it what it is.

If it was a profitable venture to run a site for people with Autism to interact with other people with the condition, this would be far from the only site of this size.

It also would be advantageous to make the site as fast as possible, if it was generating the revenue to support the improvement, particularly if the motivation was to make a profit.


And nobody here is saying that Alex didn't make an achievement at the time. The launching of this forum led to a big success, and I'm not here to deny Alex the right to gain profit from this place, but really this forum wouldn't be what it is now if it weren't for every member here who's shown interest in participating in this forum and have made this forum popular and interesting as it is.

Alex owes the members of this forum enough to at least address them when they ask for his help. Or he could at least assign others to do the job for him. But he doesn't want to do any of that. So this has only given me the message that the only reason this forum is still here is because he is simply getting profit from it just by keeping it running.



sliqua-jcooter
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22 May 2011, 8:37 pm

MCalavera wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
The problem is that moving to a new system is going to change things, and everyone that I've talked to doesn't want to do it for that reason alone. The real challenge is getting the community to realize and accept a massive change in the way the system works, with the understanding that it will make things operate much better.


Oh, so now you're worried about what the community thinks. Do it if that's what the forum needs.

And, once again, you didn't answer the more important question, mate.

Why aren't the current [relatively minor] issues being addressed?

I will keep asking you this question until you, or someone else at the same level as you or above, answers this question.

Quote:
Yes, and he's also spending money toward various sources.


Big deal.

We know it's not as bad as you make it sound.

By the way, who are you really? :)


I think you're misunderstanding my level of involvement in the administration of this site.

As for who I am, my name is Joe Cooter; I'm the Executive Vice President of Sliqua Enterprise Hosting, which is the company that provides hosting to wrongplanet.

In that capacity, I maintain the server, and the OS, firewall, and other aspects of the environment that we have on our servers (various security pieces, performance pieces, and management tools). As part of our offering we actively consult with site owners on how to increase performance and security of their website. It's in this capacity that I'm aware of the issues that this site has (on a technical level). It is also in this capacity that I know details of how much we charge, and so I'm able to get a good idea of what it costs Alex to keep this site running.

I've also met Alex. He's come by the datacenter a few times, we've gone to lunch/dinner a few times, and we talk online every once in a while - mostly related to A/V things, as he is pursuing a career in film, and professional audio is a hobby of mine. We also both went to the HOPE conference last summer in NYC, and we hung out quite a bit there as well. In that capacity, I've asked him various questions on what he's making off the site. I have no reason to believe he's lying to me, so I'm basing my information based on what he's told me.

The questions you keep asking me are questions that I'm not able or prepared to answer. I don't *know* why specific issues aren't being addressed, other than to say that, in general, the code behind this site is ill suited to do what it needs to do.



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22 May 2011, 10:19 pm

You're not part of the admin staff. Good. Then get back to whatever business you do and don't try to stray us away from the real issue here.



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22 May 2011, 10:24 pm

^ 8O
sliqua-jcooter is entitled to participate in this discussion as much as any other member. I think he made it quite clear he's not speaking for the administration of the site.

So you, him and I are actually speaking from the same position and I would appreciate if you wouldn't forget your manners.


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22 May 2011, 11:39 pm

Sallamandrina wrote:
Roman, since I can't help you with your PM rights I'd like to suggest something until the issue is solved. Create a new email address so you won't have to disclose your personal one or have it spammed and put it in your signature. This way you'll be able to ask people to contact you if you want to talk to them privately.


That assumes that there is someone TRYING to contact me. There is none. There is something about me that makes everyone ignore me. And even if they DID try to contact me ... how do I know they will use my email and not PM even if I DID put my email in signature? That would require me to mention in signature that I don't have my PM rights.

Now if *I* want to contact others, what am I to do? Its not like they have their emails posted. And what about SPECIFIC people who have PM-ed me to whom I wish I could reply. I don't have their email adresses. THAT is why I made this post. I got a PM and I wanted to respond to that person. And I haven't responded for over a month all because I am waiting to get my PM back.



Last edited by Roman on 23 May 2011, 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

sliqua-jcooter
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23 May 2011, 12:01 am

Roman wrote:
Sallamandrina wrote:
Roman, since I can't help you with your PM rights I'd like to suggest something until the issue is solved. Create a new email address so you won't have to disclose your personal one or have it spammed and put it in your signature. This way you'll be able to ask people to contact you if you want to talk to them privately.


That assumes that there is someone TRYING to contact me. There is none. There is something about me that makes everyone ignore me.

Now if *I* want to contact others, what am I to do? Its not like they have their emails posted. And what about SPECIFIC people who have PM-ed me to whom I wish I could reply. I don't have their email adresses. THAT is why I made this post. I got a PM and I wanted to respond to that person. And I haven't responded for over a month all because I am waiting to get my PM back.


Roman, just in case Alex isn't already aware of this thread, I'm going to see if I can get through to him to take a look at your situation. Not making any promises, but I'll try. I think toggi3 is going to as well.



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23 May 2011, 3:23 am

Why isn't Alex not responding to emails? I was under the impression he wasn't even reading them to begin with.
If he's not is he perhaps selectively ignoring the emails from mods and members here? I'm guessing he'd get lots of business related emails to that address as well and I can't see the sense in him not logging into his email account every so often to read those.

I'd like to know that he is AT LEAST acknowledging the issues that are piling up here, the OP's issue only being one of them.