13 Dec 2007, 10:37 am
The_Chosen_One
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13 Dec 2007, 10:40 am
13 Dec 2007, 10:43 am
The_Chosen_One
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13 Dec 2007, 11:27 am
13 Dec 2007, 11:38 am
The_Chosen_One wrote:
That's good to see. I can't exactly speak for what Pandora was saying, although I think I get the gist of it, and with the diagnosis thing, it could be that wwhile some people say they are self-diagnosed, and others say they have a medical diagnosis, there are some people who think that one or the other are better than the other, and thus they look down their nose at those that they consider different. Same with Aspies and NTs; I've seen comments by some Aspies that imply that thaey are more superior than NTs because of their condition, and these are very blatant remarks. Now, I don't really see any difference because to me everyone is the same, whether they be Aspie, NT, self-diagnosed or medically-diagnosed. The only thing is, as I said earlier, is that in an employment situation, a boss might prefer a doctor's letter to explain the condition in case of a meltdown, and to back up the diagnosis in case of OH&S and insurance. They may not see self-diagnosis as a definitive proof that their employee has AS, and thus may think the meltdown is a put-on. Get me?
Hah, I think we're back to agreeing on things. That was why I had an issue with it, that I didn't see why it would be necessary, at least in the context here, to bring up being officially diagnosed. I do not know her views on such things, so I didn't want to just openly accuse her of viewing individuals without a professional diagnosis as being less, in some way or another, though I suppose I could have done a bit better job expressing that. This is something that's really important to me, the issue of people viewing others as their equals, be it any of the cases you brought up, AS / NT, professional diagnosis / self-diagnosis, any of it. I've probably made some people sick of it by now, from at times commenting that one (or several) NT is not a good representative of all NTs.
I also appreciate the employment side of things, that's why I've considered forcing myself to go back to a professional, and a specialist for that matter, in case I have similar difficulties on the job that I had during college and before. But, I'm just not ready to give seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist another shot quite yet. Even the knowledge that it would be a specialist hasn't really helped, since the experience should be different, and it is only logical to assume that they would be better trained for it, but if I was an entirely logical creature I wouldn't check my fridge to see if my cat got shut in it nearly every time I get something out of there. -___-
I probably should have also held off until I had slept for a bit, but if I wasn't browsing the forums I had no idea what I'd be able to do to pass the time while I dealt with insomnia.
13 Dec 2007, 4:21 pm
14 Dec 2007, 2:30 am
14 Dec 2007, 3:06 am
14 Dec 2007, 4:42 am
14 Dec 2007, 4:47 am
14 Dec 2007, 7:01 am
The_Chosen_One
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14 Dec 2007, 7:30 am
14 Dec 2007, 7:39 am
14 Dec 2007, 11:09 am
wsmac
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14 Dec 2007, 2:04 pm
The_Chosen_One wrote:
wsmac wrote:
The problem with shoving uninhibited thought out the door to some 'special place' on the 'net is that it's just pushing these things into a different type of closet.
The idea that these things do not belong here on WP is elitist and ignorant.
People with AS, ADHD, etc. desire a place to talk openly. This is the place to do that.
Expressing personal things thought to be rare, perverse, etc. and finding out there are other people just like you or who have just as 'weird' things about them is a positive experience not a negative.
Wrong Planet is for people who already feel outside the 'norm'. I have never seen this as a place where we can only speak specifically about AS, Autism, and ADHD.
It's a place for people like us to have a forum to express ourselves when we believe there is no other place we can do so.
Saying a member should take their talk of certain thoughts and behaviors, the likes of what I have been defending here, to some special website for people who are 'way out there' or 'perverts', etc, is ignorant.
It's playing the same game of censorship and repression that the so-called NT's play.
This is the place where people can see how they actually relate to other people who all fall under the umbrella of this 'spectrum'.
It sort of feels like a family where the mom, dad, and siblings tell one child to take her/his questions elsewhere because the rest of the family is just too uncomfortable with the topics that one member has questions about.
If we cannot express ourselves openly here... amongst those we relate to... then what sort of expression and learning do you suppose will happen on those other 'special' website you people want us to go to?
And I include myself in this group of people you are trying to suppress.
I have spoken about my sexuality and gender issues, although I don't believe I have gone into too graphic a detail.
Still, once you clean up Wrong Planet of the ilk that turns our stomach, how long will it be before you turn on me?
I still believe that the only way to correct ignorant assumptions about people with AS, ADD/HD, Autism, etc, is to allow free expression when that expression does not cause harm to others.
I also believe the whole world would be better off once we accepted the fact that every person on this earth has some idiosyncrasy that other's would not understand or appreciate.
It's about acceptance and as long as you keep trying to refrain from being accepting, and keep sweeping it all under the rug... you help continue the myths that hurt our societies.
Whew... I need to get back over to the post about Macallan hiding in the coat rack... I need a good laugh
The idea that these things do not belong here on WP is elitist and ignorant.
People with AS, ADHD, etc. desire a place to talk openly. This is the place to do that.
Expressing personal things thought to be rare, perverse, etc. and finding out there are other people just like you or who have just as 'weird' things about them is a positive experience not a negative.
Wrong Planet is for people who already feel outside the 'norm'. I have never seen this as a place where we can only speak specifically about AS, Autism, and ADHD.
It's a place for people like us to have a forum to express ourselves when we believe there is no other place we can do so.
Saying a member should take their talk of certain thoughts and behaviors, the likes of what I have been defending here, to some special website for people who are 'way out there' or 'perverts', etc, is ignorant.
It's playing the same game of censorship and repression that the so-called NT's play.
This is the place where people can see how they actually relate to other people who all fall under the umbrella of this 'spectrum'.
It sort of feels like a family where the mom, dad, and siblings tell one child to take her/his questions elsewhere because the rest of the family is just too uncomfortable with the topics that one member has questions about.
If we cannot express ourselves openly here... amongst those we relate to... then what sort of expression and learning do you suppose will happen on those other 'special' website you people want us to go to?
And I include myself in this group of people you are trying to suppress.
I have spoken about my sexuality and gender issues, although I don't believe I have gone into too graphic a detail.
Still, once you clean up Wrong Planet of the ilk that turns our stomach, how long will it be before you turn on me?
I still believe that the only way to correct ignorant assumptions about people with AS, ADD/HD, Autism, etc, is to allow free expression when that expression does not cause harm to others.
I also believe the whole world would be better off once we accepted the fact that every person on this earth has some idiosyncrasy that other's would not understand or appreciate.
It's about acceptance and as long as you keep trying to refrain from being accepting, and keep sweeping it all under the rug... you help continue the myths that hurt our societies.
Whew... I need to get back over to the post about Macallan hiding in the coat rack... I need a good laugh
The_Chosen_One wrote:
Excuse me, but I think that's just a load of pure BS. Just because people have Aspergers does NOT mean they are going to want to be necessarily interested in behaviour that mos so-called normal people would find offensive.
I never said that just because someone has AS or ADD/HD that they are going to want to be necessarily interested... as you say. What I was trying to get across was that there are people here who do have AS, ADD/HD and DO want to discuss these things when they feel they cannot elsewhere. Some of us do feel this is a place we can feel more accepted than other places. That's all.
The topics I've been writing about here are not exclusive to people on the spectrum. I have never said that.
The_Chosen_One wrote:
You mind say that they are outside the norm, well, from what I understand about Aspies, they are meant to be highly functioning members of society whose brains are wired differently than others.
No, I did not say we are 'outside the norm'. Go back and read my post you quoted earlier.. I say," Wrong Planet is for people who already feel outside the 'norm'.". This is copied exactly as it is written and it means exactly what it says... that people here, as shown by their posts, feel outside the 'norm', whatever that description of 'norm' is.
The_Chosen_One wrote:
And to tell you the truth, I am getting mighty sick off all theis horeshit about the fight between Aspies and NTs. What makes yopu think you are so goddamn superior anyway? We are all humn being with differences, ffs! If you want to be so friggin' high and mighty and elitist, about your disability, then get off others backs when they complain about certain things that they don't agree with, because they are just as entitled to their opinion as anyone else. And another thing, while I'm at it, it really annoys me when certain people think they can justify taking a holier than thou attitude towards certain others just because they think their diagnosis of ASD is better than the person they are targeting. Whether you are officially diagnosed or self-diagnosed, it makes no difference.
Sorry, but I am not seeing the connection between your remarks and mine, here.
-I have never taken a holier-than-thou position regarding anything.
-My words concerning NT's is this, "...the so-called NT's play". I said... the so-called NT's, meaning I do not see that term NT as being an absolute. It is an expression used to differentiate between those who have or believe they have AS, etc., and those who do not. I personally do not go around calling people NT. If you read further down my post above you'll see this, "I also believe the whole world would be better off once we accepted the fact that every person on this earth has some idiosyncrasy that other's would not understand or appreciate."
-I have never said anything about my diagnosis of ADHD being 'better' than anyone else's diagnosis of anything.
-You seem angry and resentful to the point that you are taking my words WAY out of context.
Please read my post that appeared after the one you quoted to get a better idea of my usage of the terms; ellitist, and ignorant.
The_Chosen_One wrote:
Actually, I would prefer to go with an official diagnosis, simply because at least in a work environment, if you had a meltdown, your employer is more than likely going to accept a medical certificate than an excuse.
That sounds good.
The_Chosen_One wrote:
So to sum it up, we are all meant to be one group of people here discussing things on a forum, and we are all equally entitled to say how we feel about anything we disagree with. And if people find that a little too hard to understand, then maybe you are on the wrong planet.
I agree with your first sentence here, but the last one seems to contradict the first.
I only stated my disagreement to the opinions of other members here on the board, and I tried to explain why I feel the way I do.
I have not called for anyone to go elsewhere to post, and I have not told anyone that they should not be posting the things they are.
You words come across as very passionate and angry. My first reaction is that you were feeling very upset and perhaps these words do not reflect they way you deliberate and argue topics here on WrongPlannet.
I'll state this again... my words previous and now are not made out of anger. I do not wish anyone to 'shut up' just because we do not agree.
My remarks were very specific about our societal inhibitions and why I thought they are more harmful than open discussion.
If you, The_Chosen_One, have misread my words... I hope this post will clarify things better.
In returning to this thread, I see quite a lot of discussion about attacks on Pandora.
I was not attacking her, I was attacking this ideaology that because some people find posts offensive, this means we should not allow those topics to be discussed on our Adult Forum, instead of people practicing a little discrimination when deciding which posts to read or not.
I do not know Pandora, so I make no personal judgements concerning her.
Anymore questions... feel free to ask. I'll be happy to clear up any misunderstandings... yours or mine
And my question from earlier still stands, although perhaps I should create a new thread... "Define offensive", or something like that. My ignorance about how people define the term 'offensive' is no worse than anyone else's ignorance on other issues/topics. I seek to understand what I do not understand.
14 Dec 2007, 2:36 pm
