poll about the powers that be

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Am think Sinsboldy is a very nice member,as well as a great mod,and think the same of Lau as well,have never known any other mods though.

Moderators/admins on any forum are human/not invincible from making mistakes or having problems like everyone else,the only real difference between the mods here and the rest of the community is the permissions group, they're as approachable as anyone else,some forums the mods are like a different group altogether.

I see your point. Some people might really want to discuss these things without arguing about them.

I see makuranoshi suggested the in-depth adult discussion, but younger members might not feel inclined to visit that part of the forum, and there is every chance that people would still argue the rightness/wrongness of religious/spiritual beliefs on that part of the forum (in fact I think that has happened in a thread someone started about becoming a Christian).

To me, the "confrontation free" sub-forum would be the haven.

In the haven, most members hesitate to disagree in anything but the most tactful and respectful of "tones". Part of the description for that board includes "coping in life category", and many people who have spiritual beliefs view these beliefs as aiding them to cope in life. Could not the description of that forum be amended to mention "confrontation-free spiritual discussions"?

Most forum members are already aware that it is an area for more delicate and tactful discussion than occurs elsewhere so it should be easy for people to get the idea that if they do not agree with the spiritual sentiments being expressed, that it is not appropriate in that particular forum to argue the rightness/wrongness of someone's religious inclinations.

The haven is already a "safe place" to post (people posting in the haven know that they can expect to do so without being called on to substantiate their view point,as is more usual in more open discussion) so for people who wish to discuss spirituality without having to defend it, might this not be an appropriate area of the forum?

I think that's reasonable - so we are looking at the creation of a 'Sanctuary' within the Haven for religious discussion? It's slightly stretching the topic, but I do not have a personal objection - it also makes entirely clear what is permissible in that thread based on it's forum location.


M.

and isn't it interesting, WP was supposed to BE the "Sanctuary" ALL of WP.

has it really become so rough that we need to hide people away to talk to each other?

Merle

For the record, I'm willing to honor the 'Sanctity' of the religious forums by not posting my usual anti-religious rants there, provided that the religionists do not post any of their usual anti-science rants in the science forums. This would include any attempts at evangelism, proselytization, or general preaching against scientific principles on religious grounds in the science forums, or against religious beliefs on scientific grounds in the religious forums.

So, for example, a person could post their entire religious doctrine in the religion forum, and I would not attack it from a scientific basis. But by the same token, I would expect any posts on evolution (for example) in the science forum to go unchallenged on religious grounds.

Deal?

I doubt if I'll be around there much, but I think this sounds like a good idea to serve the needs of other members of the community.

For a lot of people, religion isn't about confrontation and argument. If they find it makes their lives better, they deserve the support of the rest of us.

However it's set up, it should be easy to find, especially for new people.

*chuckle* Within our favorite place, a favorite chair; within it, a favored position.. a favored book... a favored light. Even in our safest places we still seek sanctuary; perhaps a reminder of what fragile animals humans are. I think Fnord has a rather solid idea here - respecting each others' sandboxes - however, it would require a bit of consensus to be effective. Personal preference would be for common sense and a measured tongue, but I've been known to idealize... *whistles innocently*


M.

There are no 'deals'. The rules of WP apply to all threads and all discussion areas. If someone comes into a thread for the purpose of disrupting it for their own agenda that is the classic definition of a troll. That is not allowed in the whole of WP.

the only deal there is is the one you make when you register.

Merle
Moderator

Perhaps it would be possible to segregate the contents of the PP&R forum; perhaps make a subforum within it designed for agreeable discussion only? Although, putting it in the Haven also seems like a viable and, perhaps, more suitable choice, since the idea I'm getting is that this forum will be designed for discussing religion without the debate element, so keeping it out of PP&R entirely may be the best choice.

I'd have to cast my vote for a subforum in the Haven for this kind of stuff. The people who want to be there will find their way, and it's also obscure enough that the flame happy yokels likely won't bother with it.

I agree with the idea of a sticky Christian religious pursuits thread in the Haven, it sounds the most simple to do and is logical. When religion crops up in PPR it is debated because that is what PPR is for - debate. However, if people want to discuss their Christian beliefs amongst themselves in a "supportive", "devotional", "practical" or "Bible studies" sort of way then having the sticky thread in the Haven sounds ideal. Perhaps such a post should be initiated by a moderator with the first post specifying the principle of the thread, its purpose and expected etiquette.

Christians / atheists / other religions could still discuss the philosophy and controversial aspects of religion in PPR in the manner of debate as they do at the moment. So any Christians wanting to cross swords with atheists would continue to debate on PPR.

Each forum has a particular "flavour" or "character" associated with it. The havens atmosphere is mutual support. The PPR's atmosphere is debate. Since religious beliefs are both extremely personal and philosophically / scientifically debatable it makes sense to have physically separate locations for the two very different types of religious posts.

I agree, a place for religious discussion free of rabid anti-theists would be nice. I mean, any time a religious thread is posted in PPR, even one that says "For sake of discussion, assume the existence of God" it immediately gets flamed down by the same handful of atheists (Sand, Fnord, et al). I still think PPR itself could just as well remain open to criticize religious belief, but some safe haven needs to be made for people to discuss such matters without having so much confrontation. P&P will always be contentious, so there's no reason to make a "safe" politics and philosophy area.

Seems to me that a non-confrontational religion-spirituality discussion area would require more than a single sticky thread if there was much interest in it.

Also, it should include more than Christianity, since wrongplanet is worldwide and and a lot of people are interested in the traditions of other cultures.

Like somebody might be interested in talking about "How should a Christian deal with bullying," somebody else might be interested in "Is Mahayana or Theravada Buddhism more relevant in the modern world," and I'm sure iamnotaparakeet will want to talk about "Variations in translations of apocrypha nobody else ever heard of."

Another possibility might be to include it in PPR and have people include the word "non-confrontational" or some equivalent in the subject line with everybody obligated to respect that.

I'm not sure that would work, though. Personally, I hardly ever go to PPR because I'm not too charmed with the chess team locker room atmosphere there. Seems to me that the best approach to seeking out truth doesn't involve trying to prove that you're right and the other guy is wrong.

The free marketplace of competing ideas works about as well as the free marketplace of competing financial instruments.

I think no matter where we are posting, we should all be free to discuss our beliefs or lack thereof in a rational, adult manner without flaming or being flamed. This applies to Christians, atheists, Hindus, Muslims, those who fear the coming of the Great White Handkerchief, etc. -- i.e., all religious beliefs or the lack thereof.

I gave up on PPR when I asked a reasonable question of the atheists and the only response I got was from a Christian who used my question as an opportunity to flame the atheists.

I'm a devout Christian btw, and I believe in respecting others' beliefs as long as it does not require me to violate my beliefs.

Not a chance, it'd be ripped to shreds within minutes. People have tried making in-thread requests that their religious topic not be host to a stereotypical Internet flamewar, to no avail. Better would be to segregate it more clearly, as a subforum of PPR or of Adult Life. Or as its own subforum.

well, people are people.