Size discrimination needs to be banned from Wrongplanet

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Why do you have to be cruel? I'm not spouting hate towards anyone, I'm seeking to inform. Maybe you're upset that I'm spouting hate towards haters like yourself.

If it's about my comments about religion, well religion has been used almost as a way to form every prejudice that has existed. People are free to follow Christianity, but I don't have respect for a religion that uses fear and humiliation as tools. I also don't feel it is reasonable at all to suggest someone will go to hell, because God didn't create them in what people prefer to see as his image. I thought everyone was created in God's image, even fat people.

You care enough to bother making a point to state you would prefer not to sit next to someone like me on a plane, bus or, theater.

Flaunting that you are thin, and that you don't need to worry about your weight, while at the same time being disciminating against fat people. Is the same as someone who's healthy flaunting that they're healthy towards someone with Cancer, while teasing them about having no hair.

I love myself, perhaps that is what makes you uncomfortable. You can't love yourself, so you project your own self-hatred onto others. What right does someone have to love themselves, when you're incapable of self-love.

I posted facts, you ignored them. Who is avoiding facts in favor of assumptions and hate rhetoric?


Can someone be healthy a 800lbs? Can an adult be healthy with a weight of 65lbs? No, of course not. Neither of those are healthy sizes to be, and that is medical fact independent of aesthetics or cultural values. Being outside a certain weight range is medically unhealthy and will shorten your lifespan. It will also reduce one's quality of life dramatically.


No, it is none of my business what lifestyle choices anyone else makes. I can only be responsible for myself. But untruthful statements bother me. Weight is predominantly a function of lifestyle and not of genetics. If someone prefers a certain lifestyle, that is their decision and not mine. But to falsely claim that one is not responsible for the consequences of one's one actions seriously annoys me, which is why I called you out on it.

For me that says it all.
1) The majority of people are not overweight.
2) Of those that ARE overweight the majority became that way through any combination of abnormal genetic, metabolic and psychological factors.

Overweight is depressing, exacerbates self-esteem and socialisation issues and is hardly ever voluntary. Most overweight people have already put a lot of effort into diet, exercise or both without success.

There is NO excuse for or attacking people at all, let alone under those circumstances. More subtly, there is no excuse for claiming to know more about them, their bodies and lives than they do, by, for example, insisting that weight loss, for them, should be a simple matter of excercising more and eating less.

For a time, the only way I could avoid gaining weight was a 600 calorie diet and a lot of exercise...in my case, because I am celiac, and was undiagnosed. There was no realistic way to "eat less and exercise more" to actually lose weight.

I wish people would try to remember that the next obese person they get the urge to lecture MAY be in the same, or a similar, position, and can that lecture, because, if they are it is just cruel.



The majority of people actually seem to gain weight in prison, from the cheaper "high carb" diet they are fed.

M

Last edited by mechanima on 14 Sep 2008, 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There's a difference between holding one accountable for actions that are known to produce results, and holding someone responsible for actions they choose not to take, because they know in their case those actions will prove futile.

There are going to be extremes generally in life. The problem is when what is considered for a majority of people as normal, is called diseased. Most people are considered what would be called fat, because the ideal is extremely thin. It is an ideal that most people cannot live up to, only 1% of people are born with the genetic predisposition to look like a runway model. Most women in this country are a size 12.

Again the goal of health shouldn't be thinness, it should be simply being healthy. Wether that be at 220 pounds or 140 pounds. There is something very wrong with assuming that you can tell someone's health just by looking and judging their body size. It is black and white thinking. If it was so easy to diagnose disease just by looking at someone, why would we need doctors then?

All I am trying to do is to make sure WP is a safe haven for everyone. It's not a safe chatroom when someone can join, and have to contend with someone discussing fat people being lazy, ugly, or whatever. It doesn't affect just fat people, it also affects people who have eating disorders.

If you are really interested in the facts, visit this site:

www.bigfatfacts.com

Actually there is (and more) if the weight gain involves a histamine reaction due to an auto-immune disorder.

The glandular disorders are only one, of many disorders that cause obesity.

M

Now that is interesting Merle...

I gained weight, rather dramatically in my 40s. Suddenly women (who always rather tended to stick knives in my back, all my life) LOVED me, and were SO NICE to me...

I was an "opt out" on "the dating game" altogether...with the exception of a few, unappealing serious cases of "low self esteem", who saw me as an "easy target" and WORKED IT for all they were worth...(VERY much to my detriment).

I lost most of the weight again.

The women who were once so sweet to me suddenly put all their efforsts into undermining my self esteem. One woman, a personal trainer, who had taken me under her wing and had limitless time to answer my questions and offer advice, could barely bring herself to talk to me. Others were subtly more destructive...I got shafted every step of the way, and HOW...with the end result that my self esteem wound up pretty much as low as when I was fat.

Suddenly the "unappealling cases of low self esteem" faded away (as defensively as possible, which is never very constructive) to be replaced by drop dead gorgeous guys who were often half my age, and the weirdest people "desperately seeking a trophy partner", who saw me as a "challenge" and worked THAT for all they were worth...(VERY much to my detriment).

Le plus qui de change, le plus qui c'est la meme chose...

BUT...I DO love the way I look in clothes...and the way I feel, including the improvement to my health.

M

I finally figured it was interacting with other people that was my problem on self esteem, not being slender or fat. After menopause ( a process for me of about 15 years) I am of the opinion anyone that has an opinion of me, let alone my body, can go suck boulders. I am as active as I care to be, I eat what I want. Actually for years, I was hoping it would cause my death, or at least speed it up, as I didn't have any thing to retire on anyway and I won't always have my looks to fall back on (joke, big joke, there )
Since I have learned that I was AS all my life, I haven't changed my mind much about shuffling off this mortal coil, but being as big as life is an attitude I can wear with elan.

Merle

I am terrible...I think I have become very superficial (or even vain?) in my old age..."glamour" has gotten to be something of a "special interest"...

But you are DARNED RIGHT...that is always to please ME now...not anyone else...

Isn't aging wonderful?

The things you stop caring about, or needing?

I never had a notion I would survive to my 40s, let alone past them, so I am singularly ill-provided for, but what the feck?

I will be ALIVE every day until I die now...

M

The only action that is futile is one not attempted. And I can hold no one responsible for anything; do what you will, it is none of my business what you do with your life and I don't hold any animosity towards anyone for how they choose to lead their own lives.


Agreed. But that doesn't mean that being any given weight is necessarily healthy. Until you start to reach the point of malnourishment, the general rule is that skinnier is healthier for most people. Lower weight oftentimes means lower cholesterol, lower blood pressure (very important for me given my family medical history- both grandfathers had serious heart problems, as did one grandmother) usually more energy, better flexibility, etc. That's not to say that one should aim to be as skinny as possible- just within the normal healthy range. Even a bit chubby is still perfectly healthy. If you can't run a mile without getting winded, though, you're probably not very healthy.

First, I am also overweight - 6'0" and 220#. I am not advocating that anyone should be hated because of their size, as it is wrong to do so.

Second, I am not here to hurt others. I am here to present the facts as I know them, and they are: (1) people gain weight when they consume more calories than they expend; (2) a person's lifestyle is the most common greatest factor in weight gain; (3) lifestyle is a personal choice; (4) a change in lifestyle can contribute to weight lose; (5) the single most important lifestyle change that an overweight person can make to lose weight is to eat less and exercise more; and finally, (6) this lays the responsibility for those lifestyle changes squarely on the shoulders of the person needing to made the changes.

Third, if a person wants to be accepted by others, then they must conform to standards of others, OR have so much else going for them, that the others can't help but want to accept them. So, if a fat person truly seeks acceptance from thin people, then they must either become thin themselves, OR acquire some other feature that the thin people hold in high regard. I have a friend who weighs as much as I do, but she's about 10" shorter than I. But she can dance! She knows every ballroom style there is, and she's a joy to dance with. Her weight and size are never at issue with anyone (even her husband), because she's one of the most pleasant people you could ever meet.

So, here's what it comes down to: I'm also overweight; I do not hate overweight people, and it is wrong to hate people for being overweight; the main reason most people are overweight has to do with the choices they make; acceptance is something that a person must earn; and that a person's actions and attitude are their own responsibility, regardless of any excuses to the contrary.

Do not lie about me - I am not here to hurt others; I am not trying to "make logical reasons for why one is entitled to hate"; and I am not a troll for simply presenting the truth, for simply disagreeing with others, or for simply advocating personal responsibility.

Oh, I have done the 'glamor' phase. I didn't realize that a woman could be a 'Drag Queen' so I dressed like an icon when I was in my fourties and realized that glamour helped my attitude about my life then. ah. . .good times.
(also glam·or \ˈgla-mər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Scots glamour, alteration of English grammar; from the popular association of erudition with occult practices
Date: 1715
1: a magic spell <the girls appeared to be under a glamour — Llewelyn Powys>
2: an exciting and often illusory and romantic attractiveness <the glamour of Hollywood> ; especially : alluring or fascinating attraction —often used attributively <glamour stock><glamour girls><whooping cranes and…other glamour birds — R. T. Peterson>

especially the 'glamour birds'!

Merle

Last edited by sinsboldly on 14 Sep 2008, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Violet_yoshi, please refrain from making public accusations. If you believe that someone is trolling or otherwise violating the rules, please report it to me or another moderator by PM. Thanks.

Yep,

That says it for me...

But watch out for a PM...

M

well, I don't really have a problem with Fnord, we don't seem to be that much in disagreement here, and we don't seem to really conflict with each points, which I think his are valid as well, perhaps we both complement them Although I don't claim absolute certainty here, but certainly there are some things to consider on this matter.


ASAIK, no one here seems to be promoting hate and discimination, and mostly expressing an opinion on how things must be, according to them (the physical and the why) they could say, and it would be valid, that the truth doesn't change because of political correctness. Nevertheless, "the truth" could not be entirely accurate or could be incomplete.


Troll, I don't think so, he is just expressing his opinion on the subject as everyone else here.


Yes, I agree, and they deserve respect, nevertheless, their points make sense, I am aware that there would be some who would refuse to follow a diet or make exercise on the grounds on pride movement or something like that, when their health might be in real danger, I mean, all should be balanced.

Right but what I'm say is it is presumptuous to say someone is fat therfore they must be unhealthy. There are many healthy fat people, and they don't want to be constantly bombarded by the idea that they're unhealthy/don't know how to take care of their bodies. There are also unhealthy thin people, who don't take care of their bodies, and rarely are held up for scrutiny as to if they're lazy or eating unhealthily. Also most thin people aren't told something is horribly wrong with them, if they don't exercise every single day. It is better for you, but for alot of Aspies right now they're getting Seasonal Affective Disorder like I am. The last thing someone needs is to be told that by virtue of being born with a certain body type, they have to have energy each and every day and exercise. That being able to relax is only something afforded to those with thin privilage.

...actually...

Thinking about it overnight:

Just knowing someone is overweight doesn't tell you a single thing about how or why, they got that way, let alone what they would actually need to do to change that, and whether changing that would be realistically worth it for them.

In the light of that, lecturing someone without having any real idea what you are talking about is usually considered pretty ignorant at best, and it shouldn't be happening here.

M