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Eevee
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11 Dec 2011, 1:14 am

I realize that this may complicate things, what with the existence of a "women's forum" on here, but the restriction to binary gender options is first of all insulting, and second, going to be intensely problematic for some users. Even if what is actually meant by gender is physical sex, where a larger number of people do fit onto the binary, this is still not everyone, and there is nothing to prevent someone from being intersex and having an ASD. I know the standard argument is that the restriction of gender options "makes things simpler", but that isn't acceptable, particularly when this site claims to be making a specific effort to encourage acceptance of LTBTQ people.
I would recommend a list that goes something like:
Male
Female
FtM
MtF
Bigender/Genderfluid (these are not the same but are similar enough that it shouldn't upset too many people)
Genderqueer
Intersex
Other

That's hardly a complete list, but it covers most of the bases.
At the very least please add an "other" or "prefer not to say" option.



hyperlexian
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11 Dec 2011, 1:55 am

i agree, actually. hopefully alex will consider this idea someday.


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dr01dguy
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21 Dec 2011, 10:18 pm

I'd propose something simpler that nicely accommodates 99.99997% of real-world use cases:

(*) male
( ) female
( ) undisclosed
( ) "it's complicated"

This isn't a dating site, and it's not a campus LGBTQ.* organization. In nearly any conceivable real-world situation, it doesn't matter whether a user's plumbing is OEM or aftermarket, and whether it aligns with the user's hormones and identity.

Besides, you forgot to include xiphopagus hermaphrodites. Tsk. Such callous insensitivity! ;-)


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fraac
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21 Dec 2011, 10:28 pm

Bigender/Genderfluid (these are not the same but are similar enough that it shouldn't upset too many people)
Genderqueer
Intersex

What do these mean?



Verdandi
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22 Dec 2011, 12:22 am

I don't think the list needs two separate entries for men and women (that is, you don't need male and FTM or female and MTF).

"Male/Female/Undisclosed/It's complicated" is actually insufficient for me. My gender is not complicated, nor is it male or female, and I don't have any problems with disclosing it. But, there have been other threads on this topic, which I believe have been moved to the LGBT forum.

fraac wrote:
Bigender/Genderfluid (these are not the same but are similar enough that it shouldn't upset too many people)
Genderqueer
Intersex

What do these mean?


These are oversimplified

Bigender means having two genders, like someone who sees themselves as both a man and a woman. Steven Tyler of Aerosmith actually describes himself this way, if I recall correctly.

Genderfluid means having a shifting sense of gender - one may feel like a man sometimes, like a woman sometimes, like a combination sometimes, like neither sometimes, like something else sometimes. It varies.

Genderqueer usually means having a non-binary gender, or at least a gender modified in a non-binary way. Specifically, not being a man or a woman, but defined in some other way.

Intersex refers to people who are born with any of a number of conditions that affect their sexual development. Some have ambiguous genitalia and thus historically have been treated as a medical emergency to be "corrected" surgically by altering the infant's body to appear male or female. This at-birth assignment is not always correct, and can lead to trauma. Sometimes surgery was recommended because of the assumption that the child would not be able to adjust as a member of their sex assigned at birth.



CockneyRebel
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20 Jan 2012, 10:03 pm

I also agree that we need more options than we have now. I've personally switched to male, because I felt that was the only option for me. I also see gender as being between a person's ears and not always as being between a person's legs. I will classify myself as a male until there's more options. I've always hated being a girl and I enjoy living the life of a male dandy.


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jmnixon95
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20 Jan 2012, 10:27 pm

I remember this post... looks like this was all the OP had to say on this site.

Quote:
(*) male
( ) female
( ) undisclosed
( ) "it's complicated"


... makes way more sense.



Fnord
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20 Jan 2012, 10:50 pm

jmnixon95 wrote:
I remember this post... looks like this was all the OP had to say on this site.

Quote:
(*) male
( ) female
( ) undisclosed
( ) "it's complicated"


... makes way more sense.

Seconded.



bcousins
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21 Jan 2012, 3:34 am

Eevee wrote:
I realize that this may complicate things, what with the existence of a "women's forum" on here, but the restriction to binary gender options is first of all insulting, and second, going to be intensely problematic for some users. Even if what is actually meant by gender is physical sex, where a larger number of people do fit onto the binary, this is still not everyone, and there is nothing to prevent someone from being intersex and having an ASD. I know the standard argument is that the restriction of gender options "makes things simpler", but that isn't acceptable, particularly when this site claims to be making a specific effort to encourage acceptance of LTBTQ people.
I would recommend a list that goes something like:
Male
Female
FtM
MtF
Bigender/Genderfluid (these are not the same but are similar enough that it shouldn't upset too many people)
Genderqueer
Intersex
Other

That's hardly a complete list, but it covers most of the bases.
At the very least please add an "other" or "prefer not to say" option.


It would be a lot better If you checked female in your profile THEN that forum shows



Vigilans
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22 Jan 2012, 1:08 am

Fnord wrote:
jmnixon95 wrote:
I remember this post... looks like this was all the OP had to say on this site.

Quote:
(*) male
( ) female
( ) undisclosed
( ) "it's complicated"


... makes way more sense.

Seconded.


I agree as well. Also with diagnosis I think it should include a "not disclosed" option. Better yet just have gender and diagnosis as open fields where people can put what they want...


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Joe90
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26 Jan 2012, 1:48 pm

You're either a male or a female. If you have male sex organs, you're a male. If you have female sex organs, you are female. So usually I go by what sex organs I have.


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Fnord
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26 Jan 2012, 3:18 pm

Joe90 wrote:
You're either a male or a female. If you have male sex organs, you're a male. If you have female sex organs, you are female. So usually I go by what sex organs I have.

Unfortunately, some people are born with both sets; such people are labelled 'Hermaphrodites'.

I'd say go by the presence or existence of the 'Y' chromosome, but even then, people may have male or female anatomy, both, or even neither, whether or not the 'Y' chromosome is present.

That's why I favor "It's complicated" as a gender category.



dr01dguy
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26 Jan 2012, 4:25 pm

Actually, upon further reflection, I kind of like the idea of a 3-character case-preserving free-text field displayed in the author field of postings. Plenty of room for creative interpretation like M, F, f2M, XXY, n/a, or even *.* or *.?

It can even encode more complicated gender descriptions, like "Female-identifying hermaphrodite" as "F+m" (uppercase indicates identity) :cool:


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jmnixon95
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26 Jan 2012, 6:03 pm

... I still think "Male", "Female", "It's Complicated" (or something like that; it doesn't have to be the exact wording) and "Undisclosed" make waaaay more sense.



Verdandi
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27 Jan 2012, 5:40 am

Joe90 wrote:
You're either a male or a female. If you have male sex organs, you're a male. If you have female sex organs, you are female. So usually I go by what sex organs I have.


You should do some reading on "intersex" or "disorders of sexual development," "gender identity disorder" or "transsexual" or "transgender," "genderqueer," and "non-binary gender." Gender and sex are far more complicated than simply "You're either a male or a female," and you're arguing from ignorance here.

Anyway, I don't really favor "undisclosed" and "it's complicated" as the only possible categories beyond "male" and "female.". As I said before, my gender is not complicated, but it's not "male" or "female" (although it often defaults to female for various reasons that don't usually bother me).

I'd add:

Non-binary

at the very least.