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Making it Better: The future of WP

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BenderRodriguez
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19 Aug 2020, 4:49 am

magz wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Calling someone a flea ridden mangy dog who should be avoided at all cost and should be forced off the forum is just disagreeing I guess :roll:

This is a plain insult that does not even try to pretend to attack an opinion.
I'm sorry it happened to you on WP. I'm starting to understand why some members were so concerned - I was absent in late June when, I presume, it all took place.
It should have never happened and if it did, a mod should have firmly stepped in, no matter what political, religious or philosophical opinions had been exchanged before.


That is just one example out of many that sly had to deal with. They were reported at the time and nothing was done about it. Only after this thread was started some were removed, so I cannot link you to them, but many people have seen and reported them and can confirm they existed.

I don't share sly's political views, we were never friends or PM-ed here and we don't have much in common - I have no dog in this fight. All I can say is that it's gotten so bad at one point that I felt obligated to speak up about the situation and try to help him in some way just because it was nauseating to witness someone being targeted this way (and knowing the vulnerable state he's in I started to really fear for his mental health and well-being).


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BenderRodriguez
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19 Aug 2020, 4:54 am

Amity wrote:
That requires unbiased decision making and significant levels of trust in those making the decisions.

Openness and transparency is how this would be ideally achieved, not a debate, but decisions that can be verified by others, where there is concern about impartiality or fairness.


It's as simple as this and has been working in the past just fine.

Thank you, Amity, I still can't believe how much patience you've shown here, you went above and beyond trying to bring a change without any agenda or personal motivations :heart:


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Wolfram87
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19 Aug 2020, 4:55 am

Amity is good like that. :)


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Amity
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19 Aug 2020, 5:13 am

Dont go all smooshy on me lol.

It's not without personal motivation, this place has such potential, despite challenges as an online community we are still here... I want to keep it that way, that's my motivation.

We can do significant things as regular members, change doesnt have to come from the top-down ;)


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BenderRodriguez
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19 Aug 2020, 5:24 am

Amity wrote:
We can do significant things as regular members, change doesnt have to come from the top-down ;)


As long as the "top" doesn't stomp on it, I agree with you. But the keyword in your plan is trust and that one will have to be rebuilt with more than words.


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magz
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19 Aug 2020, 5:27 am

Amity wrote:
That requires unbiased decision making and significant levels of trust in those making the decisions.

Openness and transparency is how this would be ideally achieved, not a debate, but decisions that can be verified by others, where there is concern about impartiality or fairness.
I think some debate is inevitable and healthy - just let's keep it in right places, like this thread.


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Wolfram87
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19 Aug 2020, 5:31 am

Amity wrote:
Dont go all smooshy on me lol.


Don't worry, I promose to remain a prickly and obstinate snark. 8)


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Last edited by Wolfram87 on 19 Aug 2020, 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Amity
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19 Aug 2020, 5:36 am

magz wrote:
Amity wrote:
That requires unbiased decision making and significant levels of trust in those making the decisions.

Openness and transparency is how this would be ideally achieved, not a debate, but decisions that can be verified by others, where there is concern about impartiality or fairness.
I think some debate is inevitable and healthy - just let's keep it in right places, like this thread.

Aye I was trying to come up with a consistent way of dealing with issues that arise, I mean when details of decisions need confidentiality and cant be made public, that's where I believe, we as members sometimes see inconsistencies, yet we still need to trust the mod team to be unbiased.


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19 Aug 2020, 5:39 am

It will be interesting to see if the new mods will include those with more maturity and have a lesser politically left-wing orientation.



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19 Aug 2020, 5:42 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
Amity wrote:
Dont go all smooshy on me lol.


Don't worry, I promose to remain a prickly and obstinate snark. 8)


Fnord?
Is that you? :scratch:



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19 Aug 2020, 5:43 am

Amity wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Amity wrote:
There is the forgotten middle group, quite symptomatic of the climate today I suppose, what about them, why should those of us sensitized or hardened take precedence because we are shouting louder?

Well, that is of course also an aspect. I guess what I'm really asking is how wide is this middle ground. I realise it's a difficult question to give a tangible answer to, so maybe I'm just an aspie looking for hard points of reference where none is to be found.

I dont think it can be defined clearly, it is a case by case basis, this is the issue with the rules, they will always be interpreted differently.

That requires unbiased decision making and significant levels of trust in those making the decisions.

Openness and transparency is how this would be ideally achieved, not a debate, but decisions that can be verified by others, where there is concern about impartiality or fairness.

It's why I've suggested before that WP needs roles outside of moderators, to properly accommodate our autistic abilities.

Private information remains confidential, yet by having a small group of people assigned to verify these decisions there is less pressure on the mod team to behave as NTs, leading to this repeated cycle of mod burn out.

I'm suggesting an internal verification, a sampling of decisions made, to identify issues and promote trust.

If issues are identified, then all decisions will need examination, this is about constructive feedback and support as we often need as people on the autism spectrum.
Just ideas for potential long term solutions.



Great ideas Amity.^^


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Wolfram87
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19 Aug 2020, 5:45 am

Pepe wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Amity wrote:
Dont go all smooshy on me lol.


Don't worry, I promose to remain a prickly and obstinate snark. 8)


Fnord?
Is that you? :scratch:


Evidence, please?


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magz
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19 Aug 2020, 5:46 am

Pepe wrote:
It will be interesting to see if the new mods will include those with more maturity and have a lesser politically left-wing orientation.

In some topics, European center is American unbelievably radical left.


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magz
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19 Aug 2020, 6:41 am

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Amity wrote:
We can do significant things as regular members, change doesnt have to come from the top-down ;)

As long as the "top" doesn't stomp on it, I agree with you. But the keyword in your plan is trust and that one will have to be rebuilt with more than words.

I believe this is why this thread has been created.


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envirozentinel
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19 Aug 2020, 7:00 am

I've spent the past three quarters of an hour catching up with the 15 pages or so of this thread that have been added in the last 24 hours or so. I ran out of data and couldn't go out because of the pouring rain, then went to sleep and this morning went ut for data and other stuff.

The fact that so many responses/posts have been added in the space of a day tells me people like WP and are full of hope for its survival, improvement and better conditions for all on here who follow the rules.

Walrus has emailed Alex and has received a response - so the wheels regarding the appointment of additional mods are moving.

I've edited/deleted one or two things on this thread which seemed inappropriate. (jokes are fine...)

Dear IL: apologies if any PMs were overlooked in the past. I've been trying to address the PMs within the shortest possible time lately, and there have been a fair number of them in the past two days or so. I wasn't on here very much at the time some of the serious infringements occurred and agree it is never acceptable on WP to call anyone a mangy dog. That deserves suspension at the least.

The fact that so many pages were added to this thread shows how difficult it is for three active mods to see everything they should. We rely on PMs as they go immediately to email inbox.


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magz
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19 Aug 2020, 7:03 am

Amity wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Amity wrote:
There is the forgotten middle group, quite symptomatic of the climate today I suppose, what about them, why should those of us sensitized or hardened take precedence because we are shouting louder?

Well, that is of course also an aspect. I guess what I'm really asking is how wide is this middle ground. I realise it's a difficult question to give a tangible answer to, so maybe I'm just an aspie looking for hard points of reference where none is to be found.

I dont think it can be defined clearly, it is a case by case basis, this is the issue with the rules, they will always be interpreted differently.

That requires unbiased decision making and significant levels of trust in those making the decisions.

Openness and transparency is how this would be ideally achieved, not a debate, but decisions that can be verified by others, where there is concern about impartiality or fairness.

It's why I've suggested before that WP needs roles outside of moderators, to properly accommodate our autistic abilities.

Private information remains confidential, yet by having a small group of people assigned to verify these decisions there is less pressure on the mod team to behave as NTs, leading to this repeated cycle of mod burn out.

I'm suggesting an internal verification, a sampling of decisions made, to identify issues and promote trust.

If issues are identified, then all decisions will need examination, this is about constructive feedback and support as we often need as people on the autism spectrum.
Just ideas for potential long term solutions.

I think you pointed out a very important issue:
Sometimes confidentiality and transparence collide and in such cases the only way to deal with problems constructively is trust.


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