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AuroraBorealisGazer
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23 Aug 2020, 4:19 pm

smudge wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
You are a high profile member of the autistic community so may have so clout and influence and have openly declared one of the members here racist ( with your personal view of racism and language usage ) which could have detrimental effects.

I personally think you are bang out of order and need to retract that statement and apologise for the mistake.


I agree with this statement firmly.


As do I.


+ 1.


+1



magz
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23 Aug 2020, 4:20 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I think one can make racists statements without actually being racist if that makes sense.
It's pretty fair to point out that many people who express casual racism don't necessarily hold 'white supremacist ideologies', they just accept the norms of their society. That's why they don't get the criticism and get offended, but it's hard to have a reasonable conversation with someone who has a chip on their shoulder because they believe they're being called a genocidal monster when they're actually being called something far less severe.

If I was called "white supremacist", I would interpret it as a much more serious accusation than simply "accepting the norms of my society" or lacking expected sensitivity to the issue of race inequality. I think a "white supremacist", to deserve that name, should at least want the inequality not to improve.


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funeralxempire
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23 Aug 2020, 4:21 pm

Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
And whats more Alex you have given the green light for members to attack Sly in The Haven :twisted:


No he hasn't, I'd be happy to discuss those matters via PM instead of responding in that thread. It's difficult to do that when a poster is both attacking me and has PMs off.


What's there to explain , you think he's a White Supremacist , Alex categorically says he's a racist. Give the guy a break in his own thread. The kangaroo court has spoken.


I've said he's expressed sympathy for them. He has. We can stop discussing it so long as people stop trying to pretend it never happened. It doesn't make him horrible person to needs to be shamed to the ends of the earth, that's why I keep explicitly saying he's still entitled to participate here. He's faced far more than adequate social consequences and this mess doesn't need to be dragged on any further.

The main lesson should be that this is how horrible things get normalized, when decent people start to treat them as normal and supportable. Those groups play to the fears of decent people and take advantage of them.


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Drake
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23 Aug 2020, 4:22 pm

AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:
smudge wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
You are a high profile member of the autistic community so may have so clout and influence and have openly declared one of the members here racist ( with your personal view of racism and language usage ) which could have detrimental effects.

I personally think you are bang out of order and need to retract that statement and apologise for the mistake.


I agree with this statement firmly.


As do I.


+ 1.


+1

Brave words, Ferris. I stand with you.



funeralxempire
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23 Aug 2020, 4:22 pm

magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I think one can make racists statements without actually being racist if that makes sense.
It's pretty fair to point out that many people who express casual racism don't necessarily hold 'white supremacist ideologies', they just accept the norms of their society. That's why they don't get the criticism and get offended, but it's hard to have a reasonable conversation with someone who has a chip on their shoulder because they believe they're being called a genocidal monster when they're actually being called something far less severe.

If I was called "white supremacist", I would interpret it as a much more serious accusation than simply "accepting the norms of my society" or lacking expected sensitivity to the issue of race inequality. I think a "white supremacist", to deserve that name, should at least want the inequality not to improve.


And that's why people who deny systemic racism get called that, because they try to insist we can't do anything about it because their personal feelings say it doesn't actually matter or isn't worth the effort or might make them personally uncomfortable.

Unrelated: Dinner time.


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Oh_no_its_Ferris
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23 Aug 2020, 4:23 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
And whats more Alex you have given the green light for members to attack Sly in The Haven :twisted:


No he hasn't, I'd be happy to discuss those matters via PM instead of responding in that thread. It's difficult to do that when a poster is both attacking me and has PMs off.


What's there to explain , you think he's a White Supremacist , Alex categorically says he's a racist. Give the guy a break in his own thread. The kangaroo court has spoken.


I've said he's expressed sympathy for them. He has. We can stop discussing it so long as people stop trying to pretend it never happened. It doesn't make him horrible person to needs to be shamed to the ends of the earth, that's why I keep explicitly saying he's still entitled to participate here. He's faced far more than adequate social consequences and this mess doesn't need to be dragged on any further.

The main lesson should be that this is how horrible things get normalized, when decent people start to treat them as normal and supportable. Those groups play to the fears of decent people and take advantage of them.


And you are more than welcome to discuss this anywhere on the forum but not about Sly and not in his Haven thread


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IsabellaLinton
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23 Aug 2020, 4:23 pm

Drake wrote:
AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:
smudge wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
Oh_no_its_Ferris wrote:
You are a high profile member of the autistic community so may have so clout and influence and have openly declared one of the members here racist ( with your personal view of racism and language usage ) which could have detrimental effects.

I personally think you are bang out of order and need to retract that statement and apologise for the mistake.


I agree with this statement firmly.


As do I.


+ 1.


+1

Brave words, Ferris. I stand with you.


+2 from Chateau Linton


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magz
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23 Aug 2020, 4:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
magz wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I think one can make racists statements without actually being racist if that makes sense.
It's pretty fair to point out that many people who express casual racism don't necessarily hold 'white supremacist ideologies', they just accept the norms of their society. That's why they don't get the criticism and get offended, but it's hard to have a reasonable conversation with someone who has a chip on their shoulder because they believe they're being called a genocidal monster when they're actually being called something far less severe.
If I was called "white supremacist", I would interpret it as a much more serious accusation than simply "accepting the norms of my society" or lacking expected sensitivity to the issue of race inequality. I think a "white supremacist", to deserve that name, should at least want the inequality not to improve.
And that's why people who deny systemic racism get called that, because they try to insist we can't do anything about it because their personal feelings say it doesn't actually matter or isn't worth the effort or might make them personally uncomfortable.

Unrelated: Dinner time.
As you know, I don't live in the US. From what I know, public education is not really good in that country. People get only limited, whitewashed history to learn.
I can easily imagine that a lot can live a life sheltered enough to grow up genuinely unaware of the lingering issues. What with them? Call them "racist" and "white supremacist" so they feel accused of at least wanting slavery back - because they may genuinely not know what you're talking about?


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23 Aug 2020, 4:41 pm

Fellowing earthlings now is the time to drop your pretenses of differences .. Am please behave as humans .
The basic commonalities reign supreme . 8O


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kraftiekortie
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23 Aug 2020, 4:42 pm

+3.....I wish Sly and Alex would have a good chat, honestly. With both listening with open minds.

As far as American education is concerned...it depends on the teacher. I’ve gotten lousy history education, and I’ve gotten great history education.

America is not a moral cesspool just because Trump basks in a moral cesspool.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 23 Aug 2020, 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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23 Aug 2020, 4:45 pm

+4

Ferris, you're our very, very needed Enfant Terrible!
We need to heal it, not win it.


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Drake
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23 Aug 2020, 4:47 pm

Intent matters. People used to use negro inoffensively, then there was coloured, which has also fallen out of favour. I still see older people use it and mean nothing by it. And yet, we have people of colour which is somehow okay.

Don't get caught up in semantics when there's no ill intent.



smudge
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23 Aug 2020, 4:47 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
+1.....I wish Sly and Alex would have a good chat, honestly. With both listening with open minds.

As far as American education is concerned...it depends on the teacher. I’ve gotten lousy history education, and I’ve gotten great history education.

America is not a moral cesspool just because Trump basks in a moral cesspool.


magz wrote:
+1

Ferris, you're our very, very needed Enfant Terrible!
We need to heal it, not win it.


Fixed. Each person is a 1.


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funeralxempire
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23 Aug 2020, 4:49 pm

Drake wrote:
Don't get caught up in semantics when there's no ill intent.


So, it's fair to call Proud Boys white supremacists? And those who openly support them sympathizers? :wink:


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Drake
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23 Aug 2020, 4:52 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Drake wrote:
Don't get caught up in semantics when there's no ill intent.


So, it's fair to call Proud Boys white supremacists? And those who openly support them sympathizers? :wink:

I don't get it.



funeralxempire
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23 Aug 2020, 4:56 pm

Drake wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Drake wrote:
Don't get caught up in semantics when there's no ill intent.


So, it's fair to call Proud Boys white supremacists? And those who openly support them sympathizers? :wink:

I don't get it.


Because that's what they are so there's no ill intent when I call them such. Carrying a grudge and using it to try to stir up moderator intervention is bullying and isn't right.


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Watching liberals try to solve societal problems without a systemic critique/class consciousness is like watching someone in the dark try to flip on the light switch, but they keep turning on the garbage disposal instead.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う