How we deal with racism and hate speech on Wrong Planet

Page 16 of 19 [ 299 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next

Sahn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,503
Location: UK

26 Aug 2020, 10:13 am

LaLaLand wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
LaLaLand wrote:
domineekee wrote:
Skilpadde wrote:
This really isn't complicated and shouldn't be controversial. Racist words are not to be used, racist imagery is not to be used.

+1

Teach51 wrote:
Hmm...welcome to la la land.


Teach! You're using Ferris's expressions now? WTF dude!

.


Your personal bias is showing :lol: , Ferris did not coin the phrase La La Land it is a nickname for Los Angeles California



Lol that's what I meant, but I don't mind following in the ferrets' footsteps. :D


Ferris is no role model , he has multiple permabans , you shouldn't even mention his name , he is too insultive to be a member.

Maybe Ferris would like to post a link to the autistic forum he started last year, or the year before.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,893
Location: Stendec

26 Aug 2020, 10:31 am

Maybe people could collapse the whitespace in their posts, too.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,471
Location: Aux Arcs

26 Aug 2020, 10:59 am

Will the terms Cracker and Honky also be banned? Obviously racist.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

26 Aug 2020, 11:03 am

I think Alex said it's fine when used in a different context so if you were to say cracker when you were talking about the food, that is okay.

No one is going to be stupid enough to think that is racist. Same as when you talk about fire crackers.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,487
Location: Long Island, New York

26 Aug 2020, 11:11 am

Skilpadde wrote:
This really isn't complicated and shouldn't be controversial. Racist words are not to be used, racist imagery is not to be used.

If a post seems racist, it is better if you say 'that sounds racist' rather than 'you are racist'. But if someone in the heat of the moment says the latter, they will not be in trouble over it.


There have been some threads in the past where a few men expressed misogynist views and some of the women got really upset and when they reacted, they went too far out of frustration, and the threads would get locked and no action taken beyond that. While still not perfect, that situation is better now than it was


So I think it's a good thing if the actual problem will be dealt with now, so maybe we can deal better with racism on here than we have sexism.



The_Walrus wrote:
Lots of really good notes here.

I think my main takeaway from Alex’s list of suggested rules will be that if someone genuinely says something racist, then someone calling them a racist in response is not an issue.

I do think it is preferable to say “what you said is racist” to “you’re a racist” or something like that, and would encourage users to always focus criticism on the behaviour rather than the individual. But at the same time, if a user sincerely feels they are witnessing racism then they need to be given a little leeway.

That doesn’t mean people can raise racism in other threads, or can just fabricate accusations to bully a user or anything like that. And of course we can’t expect people to arrive here fully-formed, aware of every dogwhistle and every problematic phrase. While malicious racism absolutely must not be tolerated, it is thankfully rare. The bigger problem is ignorant racism, which must be firmly but kindly corrected. Most people don’t respond well to angry accusations.


From my perspective the issue has never been acceptance of bigotry or acceptance of personal attacks. I also understand that moderators must use judgement and take into account if the member is new or is having a meltdown when they violate guidelines and thus the consequences to the violating member might merit no more then a discussion. The objection is has always been that me and others do see one member telling another member that they are a racist as a personal attack and an particularly bad one at that.

Right now WP is trying to recruit new mods. If as apparent on WP and elsewhere a large percentage of people do not see describing a person as racist as purely descriptive but as a personal attack it is likely that some promising candidates will feel that way also and will not want to be a moderator here.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 26 Aug 2020, 11:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,487
Location: Long Island, New York

26 Aug 2020, 11:14 am

League_Girl wrote:
I think Alex said it's fine when used in a different context so if you were to say cracker when you were talking about the food, that is okay.

No one is going to be stupid enough to think that is racist. Same as when you talk about fire crackers.

The way things are going I am not so sure anymore. I can envision somebody doing that to troll the libs then it becoming a conservative talking point.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


alex
Developer
Developer

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,214
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

26 Aug 2020, 11:23 am

League_Girl wrote:
I think Alex said it's fine when used in a different context so if you were to say cracker when you were talking about the food, that is okay.

No one is going to be stupid enough to think that is racist. Same as when you talk about fire crackers.

or like honky tonk


_________________
I'm Alex Plank, the founder of Wrong Planet. Follow me (Alex Plank) on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/alexplank.bsky.social


Drake
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,577

26 Aug 2020, 11:31 am

alex wrote:
While I understand that people may have issues with being called racist if it's unfounded, I think we can deal with figuring out how to prevent that from happening in a constructive manner.

I think the issue is the definition of the word racist has changed from meaning just a hateful person who genuinely believes that people of another race are inferior to meaning someone who says something or does something that is problematic to another race. For instance, a lot of people would say it's racist to use certain expressions that are unique to black culture even though obviously it's likely not coming from a bad place. Even saying "yas queen" as a white person would be viewed as racist by a number of black people.

Clearly the membership here is not as up-to-date with that shift in understanding as I thought and I do apologize for not realizing that I'm probably in a bubble working in the entertainment industry and living in a progressive coastal city. I think that would be a valid point to make regarding the new guidelines. It appears a lot of people still see the term racist in the older more specific tone. So that's a discussion we should have about it.

I saw your post about leaving the thread, so maybe I'm already too late. Hopefully not.

Others have tackled this post very well, so I have something else to say. I remember when I first ran into the ideology that you now espouse, it was a massive culture shock, and I wonder if perhaps you are experiencing the same thing with the reaction you've got. On the other hand, maybe not, because your way is the new way and our way was there before. But you're still in that Hollywood bubble, which is about as concentrated as it gets for this ideology. So that's why I think you might be getting culture shock.

As others have said though, it's not that we don't get it, it's that we reject it. Utterly. I personally view it as a scourge that is doing great and increasing harm in the World.

Even in America, this ideology, while growing, still remains fringe. Homework for you: Look into just how reviled actors (and singers and sportsmen and such, stars of the entertainment industry) are becoming to the masses because of their constant sanctimonious moralizing at the masses from atop their high platforms. And look at why this is, and why we are all so distressed about what this will do to our community. And then there's their unbelievable hypocrisy and complete lack of self awareness, talking about global warming then jumping on a private jet or human rights then obeying instantly, without question, orders from Beijing. Pride symbols on social media but not on the twitter accounts for Middle Eastern countries. The list goes on and on and on...



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

26 Aug 2020, 11:36 am

It's not just Hollywood, it's everywhere. Twitter has picked up on it, reddit, youtube, Facebook, etc. It's spreading to other websites. It's spreading to work places. Look at the media and what people say when they cry censorship.

I am sure there are still web forums that haven't picked up on it yet but unless the website that hosts their forum decided to pick up on it, then the admins would be forced to have those guidelines on their forum as well or risk forum termination.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


Drake
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,577

26 Aug 2020, 11:43 am

League_Girl wrote:
It's not just Hollywood, it's everywhere. Twitter has picked up on it, reddit, youtube, Facebook, etc. It's spreading to other websites. It's spreading to work places. Look at the media and what people say when they cry censorship.

I am sure there are still web forums that haven't picked up on it yet but unless the website that hosts their forum decided to pick up on it, then the admins would be forced to have those guidelines on their forum as well or risk forum termination.

You don't need to go full woke. Especially for an insignificant place like this. The old ruleset was perfectly adequate.



Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,471
Location: Aux Arcs

26 Aug 2020, 12:00 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I think Alex said it's fine when used in a different context so if you were to say cracker when you were talking about the food, that is okay.

No one is going to be stupid enough to think that is racist. Same as when you talk about fire crackers.

I’ve seen people use Cracker on here and they didn’t mean the food item.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,026
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria

26 Aug 2020, 12:04 pm

I wonder where the expression comes from of saying someone is "crackers".

Language is a strange thing. English, even weirder than most!


_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?


my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/


Steve1963
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jun 2020
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,012
Location: western MA, USA

26 Aug 2020, 12:04 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
I wonder where the expression comes from of saying someone is "crackers".

Language is a strange thing. English, even weirder than most!
whip cracker if I'm not mistaken.



fluffysaurus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,723
Location: England

26 Aug 2020, 12:06 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
I wonder where the expression comes from of saying someone is "crackers".

Language is a strange thing. English, even weirder than most!

I assumed cracked in the head.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,487
Location: Long Island, New York

26 Aug 2020, 12:07 pm

League_Girl wrote:
It's not just Hollywood, it's everywhere. Twitter has picked up on it, reddit, youtube, Facebook, etc. It's spreading to other websites. It's spreading to work places. Look at the media and what people say when they cry censorship.

I am sure there are still web forums that haven't picked up on it yet but unless the website that hosts their forum decided to pick up on it, then the admins would be forced to have those guidelines on their forum as well or risk forum termination.


twiterverse priorities often has nothing to with real life.

Web forums tend to attract different demographics. If your website appeals to college students, influencers, coastal elites etc your users will likely accept the “progressive” definition. This site attracts a lot of older members. It because of that and because support and recognition for older autistics is so rare is why so many of us in that demographic prize this site so much. It is maybe why many of us agree with the traditional definition of racism and are not in the Fox news bubble and thus understand the “progressive” definition.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

26 Aug 2020, 12:09 pm

Steve1963 wrote:
envirozentinel wrote:
I wonder where the expression comes from of saying someone is "crackers".

Language is a strange thing. English, even weirder than most!
whip cracker if I'm not mistaken.


Cracker Barrel

polly wanna cracker.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.